Ask the Pastors Season 7 Episode 13: "What’s the best (and worst) Christmas song?"

(00:05):

Welcome to Ask the Pastors a segment of the West Hills Podcast where you have the opportunity to ask your questions and receive biblically grounded, pastorally sensitive answers from our pastoral staff. My name is Brian. I'm your host. I'm joined by Pastor Thad. Hello. And our lead pastor will Merry Christmas. Yes, very on theme for our episode topic. I try today. It was a question submitted by Jeremy, I think from last year, Jeremy Lee Lewis. We also adapted to it and changed to just a little bit. So

(00:38):

Thanks for the question. We thought of a better one. We thought

(00:40):

Of a

(00:40):

Better one.

(00:42):

No, we're going to answer his answer. All of his, he has a three parter and we have 20 minutes exactly to do.

(00:48):

Boom. Alright. He wrote Christmas song Debate. Is Joy to the World A Christmas song?

(00:55):

Yeah. Let's start there. Yes or no? You have a very strong opinion about this.

(00:59):

He's a firm statement. I have a firm statement.

(01:00):

You have a very strong opinion about a lot of things, but this might be your strongest opinion of all he's ready to.

(01:04):

It is a second advent song versus the first advent song. Tell the people what second advent is the second coming of Christ after he ascends into heaven when he comes again. And so I don't think it's inappropriate to sing joy to the world at Christmas. When you think anticipation, remembering,

(01:25):

If you just look at the lyrics, joy to the world, the Lord has come let earth receiver king

(01:30):

Plain reading. You're like, okay,

(01:31):

Let every heart prepare him. Room and heaven and nature sing joy to the world. The Savior reigns are mortal songs employ while fields and floods, rocks, hills and plains. Repeat the sounding joy. No more let sins and sorrows grow nor thorns invest the ground. He comes to make his blessings flow far as the curse is found. So that then you're starting to get into the clearly there, there's the new heavens and new earth. No more infected infested with the thorns in the curse of the fall. But did Jesus start that when he came the first time? I mean, he certainly proved through his miracles that he has the power to reverse the curse, but he didn't obviously do away with all thorns and sorrows and et cetera.

(02:21):

I'm just a strong advocate. We could sing it all year round and

(02:27):

Not just, that's more your point. It'd

(02:28):

Be really

(02:29):

Fun. Let's do it. And that's a great thing.

(02:32):

I don't know when it started as a Christmas.

(02:35):

Well, you were looking up the history,

(02:37):

Brian,

(02:37):

Right before we started. So it was Isaac Watts, right? 6 17, 19. I think he wrote it and he specifically said that he wrote it as a second coming, second

(02:49):

Coming based on Psalm 98, became a popular Christmas carol over time, often sung during the season because of its themes of salvation and fulfillment.

(02:59):

You said according to, was it Gemini, qui,

(03:02):

Gem. Oh yeah.

(03:03):

Said number one. I wonder how they measure that. Number one most sold streamed something. Number one Christmas.

(03:11):

Very popular.

(03:12):

Him of ever. I don't know.

(03:15):

I don't remember reading that. But yeah,

(03:17):

If you read something like that,

(03:19):

It's not showing me that now. So AI changed something

(03:22):

About Yeah, AI is always changing, but it No, that would be White Christmas by Ben Crosby Christmas. I don't know how it phrased it, but Christmas hymn or Christmas Christian Carol something. Alright, well the most published.

(03:41):

Most cited. Yeah, most cited. As most published.

(03:45):

I have a less strong opinion I think. I guess for me because it's become so identified with Christmas now,

(03:58):

It's

(03:59):

Not inappropriate. No, it would just be weird. It would feel totally weird to sing it in June, which

(04:06):

Is just a disappointment.

(04:07):

Okay.

(04:08):

Alright. Isaac Watson and I.

(04:10):

Is it a good enough song that you would want to sing it throughout the whole year? To me,

(04:17):

I would not sing it once a month.

(04:19):

Yeah, I wouldn't either. And here's maybe that's getting to maybe a bigger hot take on Christmas. You go ahead because that way you can take the bullets for it. I've got a big hot take. You have a big hot take. I have a less strong hot take. Most

(04:34):

Christmas songs are terrible. They're not great. Secular and Christian.

(04:40):

Probably both. Yeah, I mean, but even if we just keep it about the hymns, Christmas hymns, whatever, basically the Christmas songs that you would sing in church in our church, let's say, because that was a whole nother one like he asked

(04:55):

For. It's a lot song in churches.

(04:56):

That's what I was going to say. He asked for our favorite Christmas song. And again, do you want to go just Christmas period or do you want to go, because obviously then it's Mariah Carey All I Want for Christmas You. But if you want to restrict it to something we'd sing, could we rewrite some Christian lyrics

• Read more

  (05:21):

  To

  (05:21):

  That and redeem that one and sing that on one.

  (05:25):

  It's

  (05:25):

  Got quite a range.

  (05:27):

  Really

  (05:27):

  Stretch people. Boom. Done. Yeah. All I want for You, Jesus. Yeah, done. Okay,

  (05:32):

  Done. You might get flagged for singing that tune,

  (05:37):

  But we haven't gotten to that one yet. But I did want to just big picture. Agree. I think the more you look at lyrics for most of these classic hymns, first no will Lona, manger, silent, all of it. It's lots about hay and straw and cattle and donkeys, a lot of staples. There's a lot of descriptions of being there. What would you see and smell? And it's not a ton in some of these songs of real theological substance.

  (06:22):

  So I would say I have, but on the flip side, I would say that you've seen and we've tried to incorporate a lot more of in recent years, some in particular Sovereign Grace, but the Gettys and other writing a new fourth verse or just changing this verse is all about what's going on and the skies and the stars and the light, and it's like, who cares? And we're going to just cut that verse out and just add in a verse of here's what Jesus actually came to do. And it's like, oh man, we love the tune already and now the lyrics actually are worth singing. So I love that we actually, so I will go ahead and just answer Jeremy's question. Favorite Christmas song because we actually, Brian and I, I'll give you most of the credit. I just stepped in and tweaked a couple things you did.

  (07:20):

  But because of the sermon from last week on God's purpose, it's like it would be really great to end with go Tell On the Mountain. But the whole song is about go and tell about his birth, which is great. But we now, after the fact, have so much more than just his birth to go and shout from the mountains. So we tried to add some more verses like go tell him about his life, his death, his resurrection. There's lots to shout from the rooftops here. That's fun. So that's obviously my new favorite Christmas song is the Go Tell It on the Mountain West Hills version. But I do. Where would you rank go tell it on the mountain pre West Hill. Pre toward the bottom. I would say way toward the bottom. It's still even now. Yeah. Again, the lyrics are just thin. They don't do much for you. I think other than that third verse that we kept and move to our first verse and then beyond that, most of the versions you're kind of familiar with are kind of hokey and they're, yeah, sing-songy. Not in a great way. But anyway, I think we tried to do our part in just redeeming one more of those Christmas songs in a cool way. Okay, so Jeremy had another second question.

  (08:53):

  Yeah. So he asked, what are your opinions on Mary? Did you know? I said personally, I dislike it. And lastly, your favorite Christmas song slash Carol. And then we added Steve.

  (09:05):

  Mary did you know first you were looking up, you found some kind of article from the Catholics on this one, which it makes sense that they hugely against it. Very strong opinion. Very hottest. Hottest take. Mary, did you know your baby boy would one day walk on water? You started to say, Brian, you don't like it because the obvious answer is yes, Mary knew all this

  (09:29):

  Because the angel had already come and announced. And then my point is, okay, you actually read through the lyrics and yes, Mary did know that her baby boy would save her sons and daughters Angel kind of told him that you're going to name him Jesus for he save his people from their sin. She already knew that. But she didn't know he was going to walk on water. I don't think specifically she didn't know he was going to heal blind men or calm a storm with his hand or there's certain things. And obviously that's not the point of the song isn't what specific facts about Jesus. I mean the whole point is just pointing out how remarkable it would've been. The wonder to be merry and to think about the kissing your little baby and kissing the face of God and the child that you've delivered will soon deliver you. There are some really, I mean kind of powerful I think truths in there. As far as this child, I dunno, what do you think about the song

  (10:36):

  Musically Garbage, musically and yeah, it's fine. Again, it's one of those songs that at Christmas you're going to hear a lot

  (10:48):

  On the radio.

  (10:48):

  On the radio.

  (10:49):

  But you're not going to ever sing it in church. It's not been

  (10:53):

  Done. I've heard some specials.

  (10:54):

  Maybe a special. Yeah, yeah. Maybe a special music. Let's not s do I love it.

  (11:00):

  No, I sound like a real Scrooge. I'm the GR who stole musical Christmas.

  (11:04):

  You are?

  (11:06):

  I love the Grinch movies though.

  (11:10):

  Is it your favorite Christmas character? No. Ebenezer Scrooge Dad's

  (11:15):

  Favorite. The redemption in that movie book

  (11:19):

  It.

  (11:19):

  It's great.

  (11:20):

  Your Baby

  (11:21):

  Lord

  (11:21):

  Creation.

  (11:22):

  It's fine. I would say, did you Know is fine? Are there some things that the answer is well yes, and then others probably not and that's okay. But who? Yeah, I don't even know the history of Mary Did. You know?

  (11:37):

  I don't either. I think it's a, it's not a

  (11:39):

  Him. No. I think

  (11:40):

  It's an interesting way of lens through which to view again, the miracle and wonder and uniqueness of Christ's birth to again kind of think about it. Not, I guess, well not strictly speaking through Mary's eyes and her, because you're kind of asking these questions, but you are kind of putting yourself in Mary's place a little bit and what would've been going on in her mind and her heart. But anyway, but it's an interesting way of getting at. Yeah, just like Jesus's, I godness his divinity and I think definitely some powerful theological truths there. I don't think there's anything now the Catholics would say the whole

  (12:47):

  Thing's hugely problematic.

  (12:48):

  What was the title of the article on their thing was,

  (12:50):

  Oh, I need to find it.

  (12:51):

  Is it possible for a song to Cancel

  (12:54):

  Christmas?

  (12:54):

  Christmas? Yes.

  (12:55):

  Yes.

  (12:56):

  If this song were true, it would cancel Christmas if it was

  (13:00):

  Even up. I love that

  (13:02):

  Favorite article. If it was in doubt Mary's, Mary's lack of omniscience, that would completely undermine the whole message of Christmas. Which for them is like Mary being the perfect vessel of bearing the perfect child. And so she must have known all of this obviously or something stupid history

  (13:24):

  Of it. It was written for a church Christmas play, which makes sense. That is probably an appropriate makes we're trying to help the audience along

  (13:34):

  That would be

  (13:35):

  That tracks be

  (13:35):

  Powerful. I mean, can you imagine if, yeah, just like a West Hills one Sunday for the Christmas play just pulled that original out of note. I mean people, it'd be wild. Yeah, it's everywhere now.

  (13:50):

  Yeah, I think it's a somewhat problematic song is what I'd say. I mean I think it's in what

  (13:55):

  Sense?

  (13:56):

  I think the, did you know nature of it? Yes. Mary knew some of it, but there's other parts of it that are Yeah, the miracles I think instills wonder, but for me, what we lead it, what we singing at West Hills, I would say no.

  (14:10):

  I mean partially just because overdone too, at this point. That's what it gets harder and harder for Christmas ones not to feel kind of overdone, even though you're only doing it once a year for that month or whatever. But confusing lyrically. I dunno.

  (14:29):

  I think there's on Wonder that's really beautiful in that song for sure though.

  (14:32):

  I do too. So can we restrict favorite Christmas song to just church Christmas song that we would sing? Because otherwise, joking aside, I think obviously Christmas shoes is,

  (14:51):

  I love it. It's up there. Although, Hey Rob Lowe, you did a great job in the movie Christmas Shoes. Big shout out, big fan. If you're listening,

  (15:01):

  I'm sure Rob Lowe listens to our podcast. That was a movie.

  (15:05):

  Yeah,

  (15:06):

  I didn't know that. Is that what the song was written for? No. No. Okay. This movie was based on the song and we interviewed the guy

  (15:15):

  For, I think he takes much credit.

  (15:17):

  Fun fact. We interviewed the guy who sang Christmas shoes and hired Brian instead. Missed opportunity.

  (15:25):

  We convincing Christmas shoes every year.

  (15:27):

  Brian, I haven't regretted a single day. Let the record show you are the right choice. Who would I say at Christmas Shoes? Could you imagine all through of the year. Okay. Silent Night, joy of the World. Oh, come all you Faithful Hark the herd. Angels sing. Oh, holy Night Way. A manger, a little town of Bethlehem. You're naming a lot of ones. Manu,

  (15:51):

  Those are your favorites.

  (15:51):

  Angels we have heard on. I just Googled for most popular Christmas hymns.

  (15:59):

  So I can start. I've got two that I think immediately.

  (16:04):

  Well you wanted to add least favorite to

  (16:06):

  And favorite. Okay,

  (16:06):

  So let's start. We want to start with most favorite.

  (16:09):

  Start with

  (16:09):

  Us.

  (16:10):

  Yeah. I really love Come Now Along Expecting Jesus. That's about, it's a really lyrically a good one. It's easy to sing.

  (16:21):

  But my complaint is there's only two verses

  (16:23):

  That is I think

  (16:25):

  And no chorus. It is not like you got to refrain. There come thou long expected Jesus born to set thy people free from our fears and sins releases. Let us find our rest. And Knee Israel strength and consolation, hope of all the earth thou heart. Dear desire of every nation joy, of every longing heart.

  (16:40):

  That's so good.

  (16:41):

  Born thy people to deliver. Born a child and yet a king born to reign in us forever. Now thy gracious kingdom, bring by thy known eternal spirit rule in all our hearts alone by thine all sufficient merit raises to thy glorious throne. It's a great song. Hey, I wish there's

  (16:56):

  More.

  (16:56):

  More. Yeah, give me more.

  (16:58):

  Come on Charles.

  (16:59):

  Come on Charles. Charles Wesley was such a slacker. He was too busy evangelizing half of the colonies. And anyway, he was a stud. He had more important things to do than,

  (17:12):

  I think it's the Gettys that wrote a verse two. It's just really good too. It's one we sing on Sundays come to earth to taste our sadness. He whose glory is knew no end by his life. He brings us gladness, our Redeemer Shepherd friend leaving riches without number born within a cattle stall. This the everlasting wonder Christ was born. The Lord of all. That's good. It's like, whoa. Yeah, that was one of my top ones too. Yeah, I put that top three for me. Those are my top two. Are you done?

  (17:43):

  Well, I gave

  (17:44):

  One that might be the only one on all three of our lists toward the top.

  (17:49):

  I have Oum Ome Emanuel is another one. I

  (17:53):

  Don't like it.

  (17:53):

  Okay, that's fine.

  (17:55):

  Go ahead.

  (17:56):

  That's it. I'm just going to say that I like it.

  (17:58):

  Leave it at that.

  (17:59):

  Yeah.

  (18:00):

  O come. Oman will. It

  (18:04):

  Is.

  (18:04):

  And a ransom captive Israel that mourns and lonely exile here until the Son of God appear. Rejoice. Rejoice. Emmanuel shall come to you Israel. I mean, here's Okay.

  (18:18):

  I wouldn't, it's not my top, but when I immediately thought of after.

  (18:23):

  Yeah,

  (18:24):

  Come Burg, OMA come. Emanuel was another one. It's in my top five. I would not say it's my number two. But I also didn't spend, I spent more time thinking about my least favorite

  (18:37):

  Songs. Of course you did. So my thing there is I think it serves a purpose, frankly. We used to, in our lessons and Carol's kind of thing that we do on Christmas Eve, where we read half of the prophecy, four readings of prophecy and then four readings of fulfillment in Luke and Matthew and John one, I guess we used to sing it pretty much every year because it's hard to find songs to kind of sing, to split up and go after some of those prophetic readings that really fit with Now we've done come now Long Expected Jesus more recently again. It's great. But we used to do both I think. But oh, come, come, Manuel definitely has that more so than any other Christmas hymn. Wouldn't you say has definitely conveys that sense of, I mean it's in a minor key

  (19:41):

  Of that minor sort of the longing and kind of the Isaiah nine. Like those who are trapped in kind darkness have seen a good, it kind of almost reflects in its again the words, oh, come like you're praying. Please come. Like we're dark, we're in darkness here. And it's minor. But then it's interesting, you have the wording of rejoice. Rejoice. So they're already rejoicing shall come to you. Oh, Israel. But did we do some version of that where the last time you sang the chorus, you kind of flip it to has come to the Oh, Israel. Because we're reminding ourselves we're about to, we're not just praying like shall come. Like please come. But no, he has come. It is been fulfilled and yes, we're telling the story and we're walking back through it, but we can flip it

  (20:38):

  And

  (20:38):

  Flip it from a minor key to a major key. And he has come to us. I don't know. Yeah.

  (20:46):

  Oh, come Emmanuel. Summer Grace's version,

  (20:48):

  Their version does it. Okay.

  (20:50):

  Maybe is for the win.

  (20:51):

  Yeah. They just do so much good stuff. Well, I won't go read through all the verses of that one, but, okay. So those are your top two probably. What would you say,

  (21:02):

  Brian? I said my number one is Hark. The Herald Angel sing. There's so many lines in this one that as was leading it, or as we were saying it a few weeks ago, it's like they just zoom past you. But such rich packed in there. Theology I really like. Verse two, Christ by highest heaven adored Christ the everlasting Lord. Late in time, behold him come offspring of the virgin's womb veiled and flushed the Godhead sea hail the incarnate deity

  (21:33):

  Late in time, behold and come. What does that

  (21:35):

  Mean? Late in time? Behold Him come

  (21:40):

  Explain that. That's always bothered me. The Bible says Christ at just the perfect time. Just the right time. He came to reconcile sin. So what does late in time mean? That's always bothered me.

  (21:55):

  Hey, that's a great question.

  (21:56):

  You don't have to, I never

  (21:57):

  Thought about that.

  (21:57):

  Think about it. I'm

  (21:58):

  Super fair.

  (21:59):

  Somebody listening, watching can try

  (22:02):

  And let us know. Yeah. What that means. But the line I really like veiled in flesh, the Godhead sea hail the incarnate deity pleased with us in flesh to dwell Jesus, our Emmanuel. Love

  (22:15):

  It. That's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot there. How about we got one minute and we still got to go do the ones we don't like. It's not

  (22:26):

  God's perfect timing according to the original writer.

  (22:30):

  Late in time. Late in time is a old IDM idiom for perfect time. There you go. Late meant perfect. Weird for me. I already said I'd go tell it on the Mountain West Hills version if I have to go non edited, like original versions, like the way it was written. Because lemme just say that. If I could do, especially the added, updated, revised lyrics, the Sovereign Grace has another great one for probably just what I would say. It probably is my just always hits me. Just even the music of it is probably my favorite is a Holy Night is probably my favorite. But their rendition of that Hear the gospel story where they actually make it. Again, not just about his birth, but about the Holy Night of Christ's death, the holy night of his resurrection. I can't remember how they weave it all in, but

  (23:52):

  I've got real bad memories of individuals singing that is a special just being really bad. So I don't think it could ever be

  (24:00):

  Redeemed for you. That's funny. Yeah. So anyway, if you're not familiar with the, oh, holy Night, hear the gospel story, sovereign grace version, it's great. Check that out. So that's the one we've been singing here recently. And then we keep some of the more original music with it. But yeah, I love that one. And I don't know. Yeah, there's the others that would be on that same playing field for me. What about least favorite? There's so many

  (24:40):

  Favorite,

  (24:41):

  Go tell it on the mountain and away a nature original version. Go tell it on the mountain and away in a manger. Away in a manger. Away in a manger is very straw and donkey ish, right? Yeah. No crib for a bed. Little

  (25:02):

  Jesus. The cattle are lowing

  (25:04):

  A lot of cattle, but he didn't, the little orgies and no crying he makes, why couldn't he cry? He was a human. Yeah. I love the look down from this

  (25:20):

  Good question

  (25:21):

  Down from the sky. Who's looking down from the sky? That didn't make any sense. Stay by my side until morning. Is Nye. Who is this first two from the perspective of I have no idea. Be near me a little. Lord Jesus, I asked you to stay. I don't know. This is, yeah, it's attributed to Martin Luther. I'd love to think he would write. I really hope he didn't write that. Yeah. I would lose a lot of respect if he wrote that song. Bless all the Dear Children for Heaven to live with you there. That's a way in a majors. But again, we're singing this Sunday, right, the Sovereign Grace lyrics, the redeem version. Yeah. Yeah. And they got some great lyrics that they put

  (26:05):

  To the tune. We will sing their arrangement, but with the original melody.

  (26:12):

  That's right. Are there others that are in the running for worst?

  (26:20):

  Queen and I were talking about we Three Kings.

  (26:23):

  Oh yeah, we were. What a terrible song. Yes. I mean listen, we three Kings of Orient R. There are so many things wrong with the

  (26:32):

  Title. Yeah, totally.

  (26:33):

  First of all, there's not, the Bible never says three. Second of all, they're not kings. They're not even, you're like, they're Wiseman, right? No, they're not even wise men. They're magicians. Alright. They're magi. And then third of all, orient is just so culturally inappropriate. Now you can't say that. My mom still says that. My sister and I just laugh. She's like, I think they're oriental. You can't say that, mom. So when you got multiple things in the title that are out of the gate wrong, and then you read the verses and most of the song is either about a star or the gifts they brought 'em. It's just weird. It's weird. Yeah. I think those might be my bottom two. What's your beef with Goel on a Mountain? Just what I already said.

  (27:37):

  It doesn't really convey as much as I would like. No, I think it's tune wise, very hokey. It's hard to find versions that aren't. It's hard. So I think both, I mean a way and a major is where I'd probably stick. I really just don't like that. I mean, outside of those, I could think of more wether kings for sure. And then if you go outside himss, I've got a lot of others that I also don't. Oh yeah, the list gets too big.

  (28:11):

  It's too,

  (28:12):

  I can't listen to the radio.

  (28:15):

  Radios. I do love some of them. There's some really sweet forest. Frank just dropped a new Christmas album. Have you heard it

  (28:21):

  Yet? Listened to it. Yeah,

  (28:22):

  It's great, man. Everything he touches is gold though. But yeah, he can redeem Christmas music for you. That's all I

  (28:31):

  Got. Yeah, I do. Well, that's it. Thanks, Jeremy, for this week's episode of Ask the Pastors. Remember that you can submit your questions by visiting the info bar at West Hills or by asking them online through our website at www.westhillssstl.org. If you enjoyed this week's episode, hit that like button, subscribe and share it with a friend and catch us back here maybe next week.

  (28:51):

  Ah, no call next. I think we're next year. Next

  (28:54):

  Month feels like the finale.

  (28:55):

  Yeah, I think we're done for a month.

  (28:57):

  We'll see you in 2026. Yeah. Yeah. Keep an year out for that. Yep. Cool. And an eye out. We'll post about it. Yeah. Great. Yeah, check your videos in Spotify. Check you at West County. No idea. Simply have got, we got a podcast studio over there. I hope so. I hope so. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you in 2026.