Ask the Pastors S5 E12: "How do I start gospel conversations during the holidays?"
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Welcome to Ask the Pastors a segment of the West Hills Podcast where you have the opportunity to ask your questions and receive biblically grounded, pastorally sensitive answers from our pastoral staff. My name is Brian, I'm your host and one of the pastors on staff. I'm joined by Pastor Thad. Hey everyone. And our lead pastor Will Yo, we are Austin List this morning. So it's just us three and got a question from Paula. Paula, thanks for your question centered around gospel conversations with the holidays coming very timely and hope this is helpful. She asks, with the holidays coming, how do I start conversations with my family members about the gospel and salvation? For example, I see my elderly mother every two weeks. She would say she's Baptist if she hasn't been to church in over 50 years. My sister I see every two weeks and she has never attended church except for grandkids confirmation. How do I talk to them about repentance and salvation? How does the conversation start? Hey, uncle Jim, are you saved? Would you please pass the rules? Thanks in advance. Paula, what do you guys think?
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Yeah, I'll take a first stab and thank you Paula for the question and being really intentional about thinking of the seasons coming up where we are going to most likely be spending more time with some family members we may or may not regularly see. I'll just say along with the past, the dinner rolls and asking questions of Uncle Jim, you could just throw some gospel tracks inside the Turkey so when it's carved open, people can see them. But no, don't do that. They'll get soggy, it'll be a mess, but I do think,
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But it never gets soggy, Jesus.
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Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I think it might be helpful to take this in two parts. One, a overarching question about what are some good ideas for the general listener approaching the holidays about how to begin some of those conversations and then maybe even more specifically hit on Paula's questions about her individual family members that are on her heart. I really have four kind of things coming to mind in particular with thinking about Thanksgiving predominantly because that's the next one coming up and I myself am going to be around some unsaved family members in the coming weeks. I think first and foremost it starts with prayer. Just begin praying for those individuals who we know that we're going to see that the Lord has placed on our hearts that it's not going to be an accident that we're seeing them over these holidays and just begin with that heart posture of Lord, you're going to have to work in this individual's life and in their heart, and I pray that you might use some of our interactions to draw that person to yourself. And so I think it starts there, it starts there and it ends there of whenever that time ends, if that person has not had any sort of heart change, heart transformation, to just continue to pray for the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit and their lives. And so after prayer, I think asking good questions and listening well is always another good place to start with it.
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I know Don Whitney for many, many years, he's put out like a, Hey, here's 10 questions to ask at
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Thanksgiving
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Or Christmas or at the new year around Easter that I've always found particularly helpful. They start off very simple of what you might consider a little casual, get to know you conversations, what's your favorite Thanksgiving food, what's your happiest Thanksgiving memory for childhood? And then slowly but surely getting into a little bit more deeper and deeper questions, what's one book, article, blog post that you're most thankful for this year? What's the one thing you've learned this year? What you are most thankful for? If you could thank one person today near or far living dead for the influence on your life, who would it be? Who's one person you've never thanked for their contribution to your life but would like to? What do you feel most grateful to God today? And so slowly but surely getting there, those are his suggestions. First questions, those are others, but asking intentional questions and listening to how they're responding and looking for opportunities to weave in some of those opportunities for you to share about what it is that you are most thankful for, what it is that you would like to thank God for, and using good questions to really try to get to some deeper issues that are going to point towards maybe more natural conversations towards the gospel.
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I think for me in particular, and heading to one side of the family that has unbelievers is we have Nikki's uncle is having a lot of health issues and it's put a lot of stress on her dad and stepmom and just thinking about what's going on to be able to ask questions to hopefully get closer and deeper conversations with them and even with her uncle. So I think that's one, asking good questions, listening while sharing weakness of in those conversations when people are asking how are you doing? What's been going on? What's happened this year is to not be afraid to be vulnerable, to show like share. There's been some hard points in this year and even use that conversation I think even with Paul's question about those who haven't been to church in a long time and even look for opportunities to say like, Hey, and here's how my members of my local church who deeply loved me really came around me and helped me get through this difficult hard time, this difficult situation or even model that like, hey, it's okay to share that there are hard things going on in our lives and use those to even point towards the gospel and how it is that you found comfort and hope in Jesus, even though it's been a really difficult season. And
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Yeah, you could imagine saying something in a conversation like that to the effect of, to be honest, if it has been, if it's true, don't make up the story, but this has been one of the hardest years of my life or this thing that went through is just incredibly hard. And then saying something to the effect of I don't know how people do it without the Lord.
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And making it clear that there are people that go through hard things in life without the peace and comfort that comes from a relationship with the Lord. And also by the way, I'm not even saying it to you directly, but people know their own, they don't know, but I mean they know if they're not a believer probably, I mean some people are diluted and think that they're good with God or whatever, but I mean they also know that that's a statement that they would never make because they don't actually have that close of a relationship with the Lord where they're leaning on him and their weakness. And so to hear you say that, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how people even do it, even cope, even get through without leaning on the Lord and
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They can draw that own conclusion
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Themselves and then that's going to stick with them. Stuff like that conversation, just little conversations like that and statements I think stick with people. So anyway,
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And that goes against some of the American culture of someone's going to ask me how you're doing, oh, I'm really great or it's really good. I want to perhaps people use those as opportunities to share like, oh man, I'm just doing really good. I'm killing it this year. Nothing's been really hard. And yet most of the time those individuals are the ones who are hurting and really broken on the inside, not always, but oftentimes trying to mask what's really going on the inside with look at all of these other things.
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But even if it's, this is been one of the best years of my life, being able to say God has been so good and faithful this year. I mean, lemme just tell you some of the ways that God has showed his kindness to me this year. And again, right there, I mean it is just a difference in our mindset. It ought to be a difference in our mindset and our heart posture that then can come through in our words if we're intentional. Because if I'm not intentional, I'll be honest, I mean, I could have a 10 minute conversation with anybody and if I'm not intentional about it, I might walk away from that. They might walk away from that and not have any idea whether or not I'm a believer. But if I'm going into it, that's the thing about the holidays and about this question is if I'm going into it knowing
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These are people who don't know the Lord, these are people I desperately want to know, need to know the Lord, and I've been praying for 'em all throughout the year, I get a couple opportunities or whatever it may be. Yeah, I'm going to be really intentional saying, yeah, for me with Polly's family at Thanksgiving, tons and tons extended family, none of 'em know the Lord and see him once or twice a year. And so this is the opportunity for little 10, 15 minute conversations with each of them throughout, spread out over a two hour lunch or whatever where, I mean literally, I don't want to overstate it or I'm important, but I don't know how many of these aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, I don't know how many Christians they're going to have a conversation with certainly about spiritual things for a whole nother 11 months and 30 days after that. I don't think they really have Christians in their sphere of influence to my knowledge. I mean from an outside looking in. And so it's feeling the weight of that in a healthy way. Again, I can't save anybody, but God uses as people to declare his message and being strategic. So all of that goes back to your original point about just being prayerful and intentional.
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And I think that's, I don't want to say 90% of the battle, but the more we do that and the more that's your mindset going into this is yes, yeah, I want to catch up. Yeah, I want to love people. Well, I want to connect, but more than anything, more than what I need or they need in horizontal relationships, they need the Lord and I know and have the opportunity, I'm going to ask for the opportunity to introduce them or remind or just again, not in a braggy way, but point out the fact, certainly not hide the fact that I have a relationship with him that is so life-giving that I can be so thankful. I mean, I wonder if even in those, if there's a way in that asking good questions, especially in the context of Thanksgiving,
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I read, I just remember reading an article last year at Thanksgiving that was basically just pointing out how ironic it is that unbelievers would, are you just thankful in the abstract or who are you thankful to? Thankfulness is supposed to be directed somewhere. Is it like to mother earth or the universe or where are you directing that gratitude? And for us it's obvious and so maybe it is like you said, question, maybe that question is even just helping them for you, it's implicit for them it should be, but they're not even probably think, but asking them, Hey, what are you grateful for this year
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To the Lord? How are you thanking the Lord this year? And almost like not in an aggressive way I don't think, but it depends on the person in the relationship. But if you ask it in that way, I wonder if nothing else's going to get Again, it's going to cause them to think, yeah, I'm grateful and of course I'm thinking on Thanksgiving about what I'm grateful for, but I haven't actually thought about to whom that question, which honestly the more important question. And now that you've asked it in that way, I'm forced to think about it. Is there a God or not? I ignore him all the time in every other moment of my life, but is that where I should be directing my gratitude and what would that mean? Do I have to pray? How do I do that? You don't know all the other domino effects of questions that should cause for someone or I mean, hey, maybe best case scenario, they catch the fact that you got into that question and they're like, Hmm, I don't know about that. I don't know if I am grateful to him versus I don't know. Or again, that would be most people are going to stay away from that, but that could open up that possibility for deeper conversation.
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And that was where I was thinking genuine showing of gratitude. You mentioned how hard it must be to give thanks. GK Chesterton has this quote, the worst moment for an atheist is when he is really thankful and has no one to thank and just using Thanksgiving in particular as those opportunities to,
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Or how about when he is really broken and has no one to blame if you've decided, I mean there's no God and dug your heels and then life stinks. Where do you point the finger? I mean, yeah. Anyway, that can go both ways too. It's bad to be an atheist is either direction,
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Like you're saying. The motivation for our thankfulness is much different than the non-believer where some Thanksgiving meals might just be sharing empty words of praise to each other and you leave feeling a little bit built up, but then that fades away. Yeah, like you're saying, well, for the believer, it's what we're told to do from scripture. First Thessalonians, for Joyce, always pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances. This is God's will for you. Psalms, throughout everywhere, give thanks to God the Father through him first Chronicles, oh, give thanks to the Lord for he is good, his steadfast love endures forever. It's just much deeper for the believer like you're saying, and maybe your unbelieving family would see that desire that.
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And I think just to be bold in that, don't be ashamed or shy about when, I don't know, maybe not everyone does this. There's always, at least in my experience, an opportunity to share at least one thing you're thankful for. And if you're only going to share one thing, the ultimate thing all of us as believers should be thankful for is Jesus and his work on the cross to bring us reconciliation with God and to not be afraid to share that even with very hardened unbelievers.
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And I would just to get real practical about it and think it through early on in marriage, we were trying to decide what do we do for holidays, this, that, and so at one point, my family, mom, sister got invited to Poly's, extended family's Thanksgiving, and one of the things we did growing up at Thanksgiving is we went around and everybody shared one thing. You're thankful for that year. And I think that's a pretty common thing, not like universal obviously, but I mean I think it's certainly an appropriate thing on Thanksgiving and just spend some time, a minute or two each reflecting.
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And so I asked her college grandparents, would that be okay if we sort of that's one of my family traditions if we baked that into this family gathering. But I think that I just bring that up in the practical context of or Whitney's questions. Yeah, questions thing. If you can do it not just on a one-on-one, depending on how big your family is you're getting together with or whatever, but hey, we're all sitting down for this meal. And in that context say, Hey, would it be okay with everybody? Or even honestly, if you really want to have opportunity to start conversations, click the glass, clink, clink, clink, and then you've got your Bible or your Bible app or whatever and you say, Hey, I hope it's okay. If I could just read one quick thing, read Psalm one 18 or whatever, give thanks to the Lord for he as good as steadfast love, endorse forever, give praise, give praise, and just read a couple verses and say to me, that's what Thanksgiving is about. I think that's what it was originally about for the pilgrims puritans. And in keeping with that, I would just love
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It
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If we as a family and friends could go around and just each share a couple things that we're thankful for to the Lord.
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And again, now I've brought scripture into it. I've brought the Lord and thankfulness to him into it. I've connected it with the whole original reason for the holiday in the first place, things like that. And then I've also teed myself up that why don't you go first and it comes all the way around and I get to end and close it and I say, I'm thankful for family and work and this and that, thankful for my church gives me a chance to talk about that and just what an impact and practically that is on my life, being a part of a community of faith. That's where I think maybe we get a little bit into Paula's second half of the contextual stuff of her question with her family and haven't been involved in a church and just be able to speak to practically tangibly how much my pastor and the sermons and we went through Ephesians this year, whatever or my life group, my discipleship group and the men's ministry, whatever it is, and I can speak to practical things about what it means to be a part of the life of the church and how life giving it is, like you said, that obviously want to tie it ultimately together. The number one thanks is to the Lord for giving his only son
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On the cross for me that I might have eternal life and I don't want to say easy way, but I think a very natural way. Let's all go around and give thanks to the Lord for things. And then when it comes to my turn, I'm going to do it for the gospel and to be able to share the gospel and for people to just see the joy again and the peace and the hope and comfort, fulfillment, everything that comes with that kind of relationship with the Lord. Even
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Prayer before the meal,
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Yes,
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For the family or if it's not what it is, you praying with your spouse, they're at the table. Everybody sees that there's a good opportunity for discussion, conversation around that too.
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I would even ask that. That's another one where I feel like, again, it goes to the boldness thing.
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Every family dynamic is different. Maybe we've done Thanksgiving for 50 years and we've never done that, but hey, this is the first time for everything and to pray and have that boldness and you can decide whether or not it's best or appropriate or whatever, most strategic effective to do that beforehand. Hey mom and dad, I know we got all the siblings and all the grandkids and everything I just spend on my heart and I would just love our family prays before every meal at home and I'd love the opportunity to pray before we eat Thanksgiving together this year, next week. Would that be okay? Versus in the moment just bringing that up and saying, Hey, why don't we all go around and thankful and also now that I've shared mine last or whatever, would you all mind if I just pray for the meal and just, yeah. And then that gives, like you said, Brian, another and I am blessed that in Polly's extended family, even without the church, the faith and any of that, I get asked every year by her grandparents to say the blessing at Thanksgiving. It comes with a territory I guess as being the pastor. And
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Anytime in a church context, people notice I'm always trying to give that responsibility away. I think it's just a small way that you can involve other people in leadership is just letting them be the one to pray for this meeting or pray for this church service or pray for this gathering, whatever. But in that context, man, I relish that opportunity to be able to pray again, just knowing this is probably the one prayer of the entire year that most of the people at this table, the one time in the entire year that most of these people will be directing their thoughts consciously somehow to God and engaging with, and that's such a huge privilege and blessing. But I would say even if you don't get asked to do it, like you said, Brian, ask, speak up in a certain
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And ask, Hey, would this be okay? I had really love to just say a quick blessing for our meal and time together. And then, yeah, thank you for the food. Thank you for this fellowship and relationships with each other. But most of all, thank you for relationship with you that we have only through your son Christ Jesus. You don't have to give an altar call, but you can. And Lord, if anyone at this table does not nudge, nudge know you, would you work on their heart right now? I don't know. You don't have to do the whole pastor will at the end of the worship service thing to 'em, but I mean just for people to hear that gospel message, I think in that way. Other thoughts? I mean a lot of that has been about Thanksgiving. What about Christmas? Christmas, I don't know. That's the other big holiday approaching inviting to
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Church. I mean, that's one.
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Yeah, absolutely. Yep. And invite to Christmas Eve services or even if you're traveling to them, prioritizing that and saying, Hey, I really want to take our nuclear family to some kind of a Christmas service at a church here. Would you guys be interested in joining and coming along with us? We'd love to have you. And then doing your research, your homework, making sure it's a
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Gospel solid church that can get tricky when maybe it is a family member who is churched and whether they go every week or they go a couple times a year, but they have sort of their church that is maybe not a gospel preaching church, a Bible grounded church. So that can always get tricky. But I mean even in that situation, you pray through that, you discern through that, how much do you throw a wrench into that versus, okay, yeah, we'll go to your Episcopal church, we'll go to your UMC church or whatever, and then we sit through the same fake sermon together and whatever, and then it gives that opportunity on the car ride on the way home to say, Hey, what did you think of that pastor's message? And to just give that spiritual touchpoint, even if it wasn't the gospel, might open up a possibility for you to share the gospel and a way for you to respect them and going to their church anyway.
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And yeah, other things that you can do, just even whether it's proactively or not, like, hey, as before we open presents, depending on how everyone's thing is like, Hey, can I read where the Christmas tradition started and the birth of Christ?
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It's a great one.
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Also do that every year too. Don Whitney, he's got more questions. They're not the end all be all, but in there he has one about why do you think Jesus came to earth and just using that as another opportunity for me this year, my grandfather emailed me and he's like, Hey, I would like you to share a Christmas devotional this year and knowing that not every member of my family who will be in attendance is a believer in thinking, man, what a gift from him this year to have that opportunity. And
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There are great resources. Those
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Are great resources.
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If that feels like, oh my gosh, I wouldn't even know where to, I'm not a pastor or whatever. There are great, even beyond just reading the story is great, but I mean I think there are great devotional type resources out there that are specifically titled things like Why Jesus Came to Earth, so that you're ready to actually answer that question in the context of reading this. It's a short little three page, but can I just read through and remind us of why we're doing all this in the presence and
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For those at West Hills, those will start appearing. We will have those resources available at the info bar that you can come grab those, take those something we give to all visitors at our Christmas Eve service at the very least. But just another thing of like, Hey, here's a resource. Read it. Take five, 10 minutes or even you read it yourself so you feel perhaps more equipped to engage in some of those conversations.
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Here's another great, speaking of the great questions, here's another great one that is not specific to the holidays, but especially I think when you don't see someone often is we're always quick to obviously ask the question, how you doing? How's the year been? What's new? What's going on the catch up thing? But to make that turn to the little bit deeper and just ask, how can I be praying for you in this next year?
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And just like, how can I be praying for you again, I'm great with ideas, I'm terrible with follow through, so please don't think that I'm great about doing this. Although now that I'm saying it on this podcast, it's good. It'll be a good accountability for me with Thanksgiving here in a couple weeks with Christmas is like when you see those family members or friends or whatever it is. Yeah, just asking that question, how can I be praying for you right now? And again, it gets them, it confronts 'em with a number of things. This is someone hopefully from a positive standpoint, this is someone who wow, you would pray for, they talk to God regularly and they care enough about me and they believe enough in God that he actually listens and changes things that they're going to hardly, anybody's going to be offended and refuse to answer that question. By the way, even atheist will, even if they don't believe they're going to respect the fact,
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Okay,
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I mean the fact that you care enough about me that you would spend time doing that, but I think just again, but it's a reminder that, oh yeah, maybe I should pray more.
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Do
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I believe in God or not? I don't know. I mean, functionally I live like there's no God, but what if there is and does he actually listen? And if he does, why wouldn't I be talking? Why wouldn't I be bringing certain problems or concern or praises Thanksgiving to him? And so I think that's one that could apply Thanksgiving, Christmas, anytime, not even holidays, just like how can I be praying for you right now? Other thoughts on big picture or even maybe specifically for Paula with her loved ones here,
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Your mom or sister,
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Mom who hadn't been to church in 50 years, sister never attends church. I mean, obviously we don't want to confuse church attendance with true saving faith, but I mean, gosh, that could be another question if you can find a way to do it in a non accusatory way. Have you thought at all about getting back involved in church? It's been so for me,
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It's not accusing, why haven't you been at church?
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Right? Yeah. But have you given any thought to going back to church and yeah, I don't know. I'm sure there are ways of doing that. Even that question, again, if you can do it in a non accusatory way, I think that you're only one or two degrees away at that point from the deeper faith question of like, okay, why do we go to church in the first place and why don't you, and how important should our relationship with the Lord be and obedience to him when he says, don't neglect to gather with the saints. And so anyway,
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Even just a follow up of other spiritual disciplines, what have you been reading in scripture recently that's encouraged you or something like that to, I dunno, not assume the best, but assume the best her. And maybe she is reading scripture and having a Bible study, which again, she should be in church, but maybe she's also reading her Bible. That's maybe a touch point. I don't know.
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I think one other thing, I probably should mention this earlier with the prayer is also invite other people into that prayer with you for those lost family members and friends that you're going to see, and
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Especially other family members who are going to be there. You're going in with a team approach strategy like, Hey, we're the five believers at this table of 12. I just send this group text so that we're all in prayer leading up to this, and we're all seeking out those conversations together. That's good.
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Love your life group, your
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Spouse,
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And you can go outside of that, but just adding on, adding on to it. Absolutely. And yeah, I think, and then praying for the Lord to work when those conversations end of, it's the end of our time together and praying that the Lord will continue to work and remembering that their salvation isn't reliant on us, but God chooses to work through individuals like us believers. And so just point, just resting in the comfort of the Lord's going to
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Work. Yeah,
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Definitely. Lots more ideas that we haven't gotten time for. To me, those are the most natural. There are probably others that would be more creative and whatever, but just in terms of just fitting spiritual conversations, segueing into that from very otherwise natural commonplace conversations, I think that is hopefully gives some good food for thought. And another just quick question, how can I pray for you is how have you seen the Lord working in your life lately? Again, you're assuming that everything that happens to them, good and bad comes from the Lord. How's God been working in your life? And I mean, that's another question that just reframes the question of how you doing? How's the year been? Is like how's God been working in your life? And you just put it in the context of God has done things in your life and you ought to redirect both praise and petitions to him because of it. So anyway, good stuff. Thanks for the question, Paula.
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Yeah, thanks
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Paula.
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And that's it for this week's episode of Ask the Pastors. Remember that you can submit your questions by visiting the info bar at West Hills or by asking them online through our website at www.westhillsstl.org. If you enjoyed this week's episode, hit that like button, subscribe and share it with a friend. We didn't talk about it, but I assume we're taking a week off next week for Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving probably. Yeah. Happy Thanksgiving everybody. Happy Thanksgiving and we'll probably catch you in two weeks. Yep. Alright, thanks for listening.