Ask the Pastors S6 E13: “Why is Jesus interceding for us if all our sins have been paid for?”

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Welcome to Ask the Pastors a segment of the West Hills Podcast where you have the opportunity to ask your questions and receive biblically grounded, pastorally sensitive answers from our pastoral staff. My name is Brian. I'm your host and one of the pastors on staff here, and I'm joined by Pastor Austin. Hello Pastor Thad. Hey everyone. And Pastor Will, what's up. Thanks for adjusting that.

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Yeah.

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Today we have a great question from Darcy. I'll just read its entirety. She writes, I recently read this quote from Michael Reeves Christian. It is Satan's lie that behind a smiling Jesus there hides a frowning father. The truth is that the Father himself loves you, John 1627. While I know that a frowning face does not necessarily equate to lack of love, it really got me thinking about how we, or at least I can easily fall into thinking that God the Father, reluctantly or begrudgingly loves us because he has to in Christ, we know that the Trinity is united in will, so this simply cannot be true. As Reeves points out. In light of that, can you talk about the ongoing intercessory work of Christ since all of the Father's wrath was poured out onto his son on the cross? What is Christ doing as he sits at the right hand of the Father Hebrew 7 25? And how does this impact the way we understand God's disposition toward us?

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Great

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Questions. It's a

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Really good one. Should we start by reading Hebrew 7 25 just to make sure everyone's on the same page about context. So there's three or four key passages. I would say one John two, one Romans 8 34,

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And then Hebrew 7 25 is maybe the most quoted with regard to what Jesus is doing right now. And the short answer is interceding making intercession. And so here's Hebrews 7 25. Oh, I guess we back up a little bit to get context for the consequently the former priest, old Testament were many a number. They're prevented by death from continuing in office, but Jesus holds his priesthood permanently because he continues forever. Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost, those who would draw near to God through him since he always lives to make intercession for them. So Jesus is right now in heaven making at the right hand of God the Father and making intercession for those who withdraw near to God through him. So that's just a word of context, but you guys take a first swing at answering Darcy's question, okay,

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If that's what Jesus is doing now, but also we know biblically that all of our sins, past, present, future we're paid for on the cross by Jesus, his once for all time. Yeah, I mean you get a lot of that language even just right there later in Hebrews. I mean it's the same author, I don't know who it was, but same author saying both those things. He's interceding right now and also I think Hebrews 9 27, I think it is in Hebrews 10 14 or 12, 11 through 14, where Jesus is once for all time sacrifice by his sacrifice. We have been perfected for all time, sanctified for all times, and I just justified, but sanctified perfected for all time. So if we've been justified, sanctified, perfected once for all time by Christ sacrifice for us in our place on the cross in the past, then where is the need or what is he doing right now in this idea of interceding for us? What does that mean,

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Right? And I think the other follow-up question to that is about the nature of the Father and there's a relationship she's asking what is the relationship between those two things? And so I think

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That you got to answer the first before you get

• Read more

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  To, and so I want to talk a little bit about 7 25 about what's in the text and then how some people have commented on the text. So importantly is when it talks about saving to the uttermost, that's a strange phrase and there's sort of a double sense to that word. On the one hand, it can mean that his priestly work is sufficient for all of our sins, meaning it's big enough to take our worst sin on the one hand, or it can have the sense of being applied for all times. John Owen and his sort of monumental seven volume commentary on Hebrews, spend some time on everything in that book. But on this one I spent a little bit of time just going through it yesterday again and he talks about how he's persuaded that this verse in this moment is talking about both of those things. So Jesus, as he puts it, does not faint in his work. He's able to save completely as to all parts, fully as to all causes and forever in duration. This is part of his threefold office. Sometimes we forget his offices come in three main versions, the offit of prophet and the offit of Office of Priest and the office of King. And I think that if we were asked Joe Connor again, what is he doing now, they might think of him as ruling and that would be like an application of his kingly office

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  And

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  We think of his prophetic office sort of maybe through the ministry of the word of the Spirit to his church, but his one shely is how he represents us before the Father. We need that because we continue to sin. One of our son school classes that just started is going through day Norlands book deeper and he talks about this role of intercession that Christ continues to do. So I'm just going to read the quote in full here. He says, Jesus is not bored in heaven. He is fully engaged on our behalf as engaged as ever he was on earth. He is interceding for us. Why? Because we continue to sin as believers. If convergence so changed us that we never sinned again, we would not need Christ's intercessory work. We would only need his death and resurrection to pay for our preconversion sins. But he's a comprehensive savior.

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  His intercessory work applies. That's the key word. His intercessory work applies his past atoning work moment by moment before the Father as we move through life desiring to please the Lord, but often failing. The Bible says that Jesus is able to save to the utter most those who draw near to God through him since he always lives to make intercession for them. His speaking on our behalf in the course of heaven is a constant abiding reality. He always lives to make intercession. A quick deep dive on some of the language of the verbs in that verse in Hebrews is that they're present tense and that's important for our purposes that Greek does the language just a little bit differently than English does. And when verbs are in a tense like this, it's trying to stress the ongoing and continuing nature of the action that's being portrayed.

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  So whatever it is that Jesus is doing in this moment, it's not necessarily being viewed as a whole, it's being viewed continuously. So that act that he has of intercession, not just as a theological consideration but as a grammatical one is one that is continually going on moment by moment. Mark Jones in his book Knowing Christ and commenting on this verse says that there is no Christian alive who has not had Christ mention his or her name to the Father, which I think that just gives me the warm fuzzies to imagine. I know that Jesus loves me and all that, but to imagine him like using the name fad will Brian Austin listener, whatever your name is in prayer to the Father on our behalf is incredible. I particularly like this question because I lived under this life for a very long time that Jesus loves me, this I know, but the Father has his arms crossed and he's frowning at me and he's just always wishing that I would just get my act together.

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  And I think that that can do serious damage to a soul as someone who's experienced it because it puts the love of the Father on the other side of me fixing my behavior. It's not just sub Christian, it is anti grace. It actually replaces an imagination of God the Father, and it actually replaces him with Satan. That would really be what the accuser does so to speak, is that you are really not good enough. So much of my imagination, despite being a Christian, was shaped by a view of God the Father that really isn't any different than the adversary, than Satan himself. And that again, that is huge problems to the soul. We know that God, the Father is loving for a variety of reasons. One of the chief one being in one John four, we says that God is love. It's not that he has love or that he exercises love, although he does do that, it's actually a part of his nature and he maintains that attribute of love in its entirety at all times.

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  And just on that note with one John four, eight, but then going into verse nine in this, the love of God was made manifest among us that God sent his only son into the world, that we might live through him. And when John's using God there, he's specifically referring to God the Father, the one who sends his love by sending the Son to come on our behalf, just even to extend that more that it is God the Father who is showing us his love by sending God the Son. I think you mentioned John Owen. I quick plug for a book, friendship with God by Mike McKinley, A Path to Deeper Fellowship with God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit has been really helpful in thinking through this. He has a quote by John Owen, which he takes his work to seals it down. Christians walk oftentimes with exceedingly troubled hearts concerning the thoughts of the father towards them because we make this distinction between God, the Son loves me, God the Father is upset with me with his wrath.

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  Yeah, that book Communion with God. It's a really hard read if somebody wants to climb Mount Evert, so to speak, and that's

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  John Owens,

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  Right? John Owen's original work, go for it and you'll be really rewarded for your hard work. But also if you don't want to do that and you want the warm fuzzies, then I encourage every listener to read Friendship with God that recommended it to me about a year and a half ago, and it's I think one of the, if I've got to have a top five list for Christians to read, it falls on the list, but

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  I've loved

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  It. One of John Owen's quote in there when he's talking about this is he says, I'll try to slow this down because it is Owen and he's hard to understand, but he says, I come now to declare what it is wherein peculiarly and eminently the saints have communion with the Father and this is love free, undeserved and eternal love. This is the great discovery of the gospel for whereas the Father as the fountain of the deity is not known any other way but is full of wrath, anger, indignation against sin, nor can the sons of men have any other thoughts of him. He is here now revealed peculiarly as love as full of it unto us. The manifestation we of is the peculiar work of the gospel. Put another way, the great surprise of the gospel is that there is a loving father and that love is available to us.

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  As an example further, he comments on Zephaniah three 17 where it says the Lord that is Yahweh thy God in thy midst of thee is mighty. He will save. He rejoice over thee with joy. He will rest in his love. He will joy over thee with singing. That last word where it talks about his rejoicing over us with singing as Owen puts it, is not just an inward affection but is actually an outward demonstration of it. This is Owen again speaking. He says, and therefore God has said to do this with a joyful sound or singing to rejoice with gladness of heart to exalt with singing and praise argues the greatest delight and complacency possible. I don't often close my eyes and imagine God the Father in sort of a joyful sound or singing or rejoicing and Gladys of heart over me, but I think that is actually the way that the Bible paints it. I think of it for the Tolkien nerds. He's kind of like Tom Bombadil in that sort of this character that sings around the house, but I think that's actually what is being described here, and that's not an opposition to the wrath of God that we see poured out on Christ because he is so perfect that he cannot tolerate sin.

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  That's kind of where I wanted to start in my answer, attempted an answer to this again, wonderful question. Thank you, Darcy is to clarify and maybe if I could be so audacious to correct, just because I think we do have to get nitpicky and real technical and real precise with our language when answering a question like this. So if I'm misspeaking my answer, I'll apologize in advance. I probably will. But in her question, there was one thing that she said and you kind of reminded, I thought it was a good segue, Austin, here at the end of what you were saying about God being able to both rejoice sing over us at the same time as, I mean it can blow your mind just as much as God's omnipresence, right? Is he everywhere? How can God simultaneously be singing and fuming but about sin? But here's the part of her question that I wanted to clean up maybe is the crux of it where she says, since all the father's wrath was poured out onto his son on the cross, what is Christ doing as he sits at the right hand of the Father?

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  Now let me edit that to what I am going to suggest that it should read, which is since all of the father's wrath for the elect was poured out onto his son on the cross, what is Christ doing as he sits at the right hand of the Father? Now, I don't think Darcy would take issue with making that correction, but part of my point in pointing that out is that I do think it has bearings perhaps for our answer for this question, which is to your point, Austin, when we envision God in heaven right now in his disposition, what do we envision? I think this might be where we do get tripped up is because I think, correct me, I think the Bible is very clear that God's disposition toward sinners is one of wrath and anchor. And I think God's disposition toward saints and toward his children is one of delight in singing and love.

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  And that's why, again, speaking of war is another podcast episode we could do. But I've had a discussion with Chad Moore asked if we could get breakfast maybe two years ago back when they first started attending the church. And he similarly, gently corrected me on this where I had been in my sermons and calling referring to Christians, believers, those of us here in the church as sinners we're all sinners, but God loves dah dah. And he challenged me on that and he pointed me to a number of passages and the New Testament where the Bible, there's really only one, lemme put it this way. There's really only one, maybe two passages in all the New Testament that seem to kind of go against this. First Timothy two I believe is

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  One of 'em where Paul is making that great statement about I am the least of the apostles unworthy to be called. Oh no, that's one Corinthians 15. But first, amen two Paul. Similarly, he's saying, I'm the chief of sinners. I'm the chief of sinners, is what Paul says. That's the only place where you could kind of make an argument that the Bible talks about someone who has clearly been saved, been justified, brought from death to life, is still being referred to as opposed to no sinners, refers to people in that unjustified unregenerate state. And why do I say all that? That's another podcast topic about whether or not we should call Christians sinners or saints that sin. But I think it does have implications here because I think that again, when we envision God's disposition toward us, the first thing we have to do is clarify who the US is that we're talking about. I mean, is it us believers? Is it us children of God adopted into his family or is it us humanity? Because I think you have to nuance your answer to that second

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  One

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  Because God doesn't have the same disposition toward everyone, just like I don't as a father. I mean my disposition toward my kids is very different than my disposition toward other kids when they disobey and act out and whatever, right? So in answering her question again, I would say all of the father's wrath re-asking her question I all the father's wrath for the elect was poured on a son. God is still has plenty of wrath left over for the non elect. There's still lots of, I mean read the book of Revelation, that's

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  Good distinction,

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  Lots of wrath. Still not all of it was poured out. And so again, hear her question. Well, sorry, before I do that, let me take us to one other passage that I personally think has maybe the most significant implications for our answer to this question of any of them in the New Testament that I could find in researching for this. So Hebrew 7 25 is maybe the most explicit one of 'em about Christ's work as intercession, but going specifically to the first part of Darcy's two part question about what is he doing as intercessor if all of our sins have been paid for already on the cross, I think we have to exe Romans five verses eight through

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  10.

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  So here's what Paul says in Romans five, eight through 10, and verse eight is the famous one we quote all the time in sermons and evangelism. God shows his love for us in this, that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Beautiful, love it. Glorious. But then Paul goes on and says in verses nine and 10, since therefore we have now been justified by his blood much more shall we be saved by him, by Christ from the wrath of God. And now that's a future tense. You want to talk about verbs, that's a future tense verb. Much more shall we be saved. We're going to be saved by him from the wrath of God.

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  And it's a divine passive.

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  Verse 10, for if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son. That's past tense. Past tense. We were enemies, we were reconciled by the death in the past much more now that we are reconciled, that's present tense, shall we future tense, be saved by his life? Let me read it again without my interruptions for if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son, much more now that we are reconciled shall we be saved by his life. So just a couple massive, I think theological implications we can draw from and inferences we can draw from that. Number one, salvation is more than just justification or reconciliation. We sometimes conflate all three of those and use 'em interchangeably, justification, reconciliation, salvation, all the Asians. But if you want to get real theological and technical, they all are can be differentiated from one. And Paul implicitly does differentiate them here when he says, we have been justified much more so shall we be saved. So salvation is whatever it is, it is more than, it's not less than it includes salvation, includes justification and reconciliation. But even more than that, number two, salvation is impossible without Christ's work of resurrection and ascension

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  Back to God, the right-handed God the Father. So we're getting ready to celebrate Easter in a week and a half and we're going to celebrate Christ's resurrection. And we oftentimes in the evangelical world are frankly guilty of you can never make too much of the cross, but we are definitely guilty of oftentimes not making nearly enough of the

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  Resurrection

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  And we're not going to try and do a whole again other podcast about, but suffice it to say you don't have a gospel without the resurrection. Jesus dying for my sins on the cross is not a fair and adequate summary of the gospel.

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  It's a tragic all of my itself.

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  I didn't, yeah, it's a tragedy. I didn't say anything about him coming back to life, what he's doing now.

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  So

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  Salvation is impossible without that because again, I think you can draw that inference verse 10 and what Paul said in Romans five 10, we shall be saved by his life. In other words, we're not saved. If Christ isn't alive, if he isn't back alive, raised back to life from the dead, we have been reconciled. That's great by his death, but we got to be saved by his life. And then the third implication from Romans five, nine and 10 is that salvation includes Christ's ongoing work of intercession, which is saving us from the wrath of God.

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  That's

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  What he just said in verse nine. He said, since therefore we have now been justified. Presidents pass part, thank you, thank you pass part of some kind of partisan, okay, we have now been justified by his blood much more shall we future be saved by him from the wrath of God. In other words, like I said, God's still got plenty of wrath to go around that according to Paul here, we all need to be saved from. And I think that that's where I would start as far as looking for clues for, okay, what is Christ doing in his work of intercession? And I would say whatever he is doing this verse suggests to me that part of what he is doing is Christ is still actively saving us from the wrath of God that because as you said and John Owen said, we still sin. And so this is why by the way, as a quick aside, another whole podcast we could do should do. There's so many good questions that we keep just asking people to ask us about aliens. But anyway, one of 'em is, I don't know if we've ever done one on the heresy of Christian perfectionism,

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  And I mentioned in a sermon a while back because we had a gentleman join us for three Sunday, four Sundays, they can never stick around longer than that.

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  You're talking about a Wesleyan kind of like we can be without sin.

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  No, he has not sinned. He claimed to not have said

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  Even more strong form of that where this gentleman asked, why are we confessing our sins in your service? He's like, I like your preaching. I don't like the worship guy who's making us confess our sins Every time I'm like, well, stick around. I don't know how I talked. Obviously I preach the gospel every Sunday. So clearly he heard me say, and eventually I think it clicked for him. They believe the same thing and he believes that we all are still sending too. Anyway, I say all that. But this gentleman thought believes that since he's been justified that he hasn't in any true Christian, he would say any true Christian post justification and being saved forgiven by Christ now no longer sins and just a lot of, again, misinterpretation application of a number of various texts. We'll do a whole podcast on that. But again, ask the question one of the ways when I got into this debate with them, one of the things I brought up, it was this question of what is Jesus doing right now? He's very clearly one, John two, one and Hebrew 7 25 and Romans 8 34, he is at the right hand of God the Father, not just celebrating what he's already done, but he is interceding. He's presently interceding for the saints for us right here, right now. Why I ask Him why? And so I think that's my start to an answer. I could say more, but

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  That's part of probably what our worship should be, is not just celebrating what Christ has done but celebrate what Christ is doing for us, us right now because we continue to mess up.

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  There's another thing I wanted just to point out. Two things is one in Hebrews since the question originates in Hebrews is the soteriology fancy word for salvation view in Hebrews is all three of I was saved. I am being saved and I will be saved. So that's the notion of I'll be saved on the last day when Christ returns first Corinthians 15 and he exercises his judgment and also just going back and being again nerdy for a moment on those verbs there in Romans five, eight through 10 is these are what we call divine passives. So passive verbs like something happens to me, an active verb, I hit the ball a passive verb, I was hit by the ball. All of them in here show a really cool picture of God's grace is that every single thing that happens between Romans five, eight through 10, all of them are passives and all of them, God is the subject meaning that he does every single one of them. We do absolutely nothing in that context. He's the one that reconciles us. He's the one that will save us. He's the one that justifies us. He's the one that will save us. So through and through and through and through right there in the text, it is showing soup to nuts, A to Z, top to bottom. The whole thing is a gracious act of

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  God. And you brought up again, we talk about being justified, Christ paying past tense, the penalty for our sin. We are being, we have been justified. We are being sanctified. We are currently presently being progressively freed more and more from the power of sin.

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  We will one day be glorified, which is to say that we'll be in heaven with the Lord will be freed one day from the very presence of sin. So already been freed from the penalty of our sin. We are being freed from the power of sin, the power, the grip that sin has over our hearts and we will be freed from even the presence of sin. And I do wonder if that kind of, again, language and terminology and theology is helpful in even making sense and starting to answer Darcy's question as well as far as we have been freed as she points out for us from the penalty of sin through Christ justifying work on the cross once for all. And that's why I think Hebrews 10 can also say present tense. We have present passive parts of, but we have been sanctified once and for all too because in God's mind it's all the same. I mean God exists outside time and space. So in God's mind and also because in God's mind, when God promises to do something is as good as

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  Done.

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  So you and I, we still experience sanctification in an ongoing like, oh my gosh, am I always going to struggle with this sin kind of thing. But in God's mind and from his purview, it's as good as done. You've been justified, you've been sanctified, you've even been glorified. I think that's how Romans eight uses already language of you've been as good as glorified because it's that your salvation. Yeah, soup to nuts. What does that mean? It means the whole thing. Thanks for the

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  Clarification. I used to hang out with a lot of farmers. I do think so much of Darcy's question in asking what Jesus is doing now as well as the feeling towards the Father comes to when we take our sanctification and our justification and mix it up, we sin and therefore we feel as though God is now angry and upset with us in that and we can be tempted to doubt God's love. And that which is where in my own story, a lot of it has struggled from of like, does God really love me? I know Jesus does. In that and the reminder, John stop has a helpful quote, God does not love us because Christ died for us again, the us being the elect. Christ died for us because God loves us, God. And I guess we think about justification in that, that the doctrine of justification tells us that our acceptance with God has not been nor ever will be based on our track record of righteousness. It's accepted based on Christ's track record of righteousness that when Jesus cried out on the cross, it is finished. He meant he had completed everything that was needed to be done in order to secure your eternal forgiveness and acceptance with God. Therefore, the interceding work of Jesus means that we have an unshakable security

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  With God and which is great comfortable at times we may not or will not feel justified due to struggling with, we are still wrestling with the sin in our hearts. And that's where the frowning face of God hiding behind Jesus.

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  Well, I think that's where the power of, like you said Austin, meditating on the truth of where and what Christ is

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  Right now and what he's doing for me right now is so powerful because on the one hand you can, and this is where again, I mean could God have in his salvation economy of worked this out in a different way where Christ wasn't currently needing to intercede or interceding for us or whatever, maybe we could speculate, but obviously God does everything he does and the gospel is what it is and reality is what it is for God's glory. And so we know everything exists for God's glory and God wants to maximize his glory. It's the greatest thing, purpose that there is and why God calls us and creates us for his glory. But you think about this and how again, God could have gotten lots of glory just from saving us once when you were 12 years old at youth camp, and then the rest of your life is kind of like a waiting room until you go to having to be with them or whatever.

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  And there's no need or no reason or Jesus isn't interceding for you. And now again, he's just celebrating what he's already done. I mean God could get glory from that, but also how much more glory does God get from not only saving us and triumphing over again the penalty of all of our sin, past, present, and future, but that we get this ongoing help and advocate the way John talks about it, intercessor and priest. We have an ongoing high priest that ever lives to save us to the other most and just how powerful and glorious that is. I mean, I think I sort of speculated about what this might look or sound like. And again, this is probably somehow theologically imprecise because anytime you try and push it too far and actually put a picture or language to things that maybe go beyond transcend our capacity for language.

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  I mean we do better to just keep quoting the Bible back. But the way I've envisioned it publicly and at least one or two sermons before because I just think it's a powerful, is to think about again, God really is wrathful against sin and yet he really is loving toward his own. And so you think about Jesus being in heaven right now and every time that someone who does not belong, who is not elect, who does not belong to God by grace to faith that Jesus, maybe this is pushing it too far, is Jesus also encouraging God's wrath toward them? I don't know. But what I do know is whenever he sees us sin one of God's children, one of the elect imagining Jesus saying to God, how do you think about interceding? Is it praying? Maybe? Yeah, that's how most people I think Jesus praying.

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  That's how you kind of picture it, is Jesus praying to God the Father. Maybe it's also just Jesus celebrating his sacrifice on our behalf that is paid for that sin already. So the way I envisioned it in that sermon that I'm mentioning is every time that we sin, imagine Jesus turning to God the Father from his right hand and saying, you see that sin, I paid for that. My death was sufficient for that and then a bigger sin. Oh my sacrifice even paid for that sin and just constantly reminding God of just how all sufficient that work of redemption on the cross was for us. And that to me again, brings me a lot of just comfort and pleasure, kind of like you said Austin, in imagining and thinking about what is Jesus doing right now for me, praying

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  For you in the other room?

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  Yeah,

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  Different room, different realm so to speak, but praying for us in the other room. That's crazy to think

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  About.

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  He's not just sitting there watching inactively, nor is he merely holding every bit of the universe together in his own power. He's doing that too. He's somehow also able to pray. It's amazing to think that the triune God who exists apart from creation has interest in man such to pray for the sons and daughters of the church. And we know that that's his nature because that's how he's revealed it in the Trinity, is that Jesus is the son that God the father has loved in eternity and that love is the one that he passes on to us.

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  That's a good point to imagine Jesus not only boasting in his work on the cross that paid for this or that sin that we're currently guilty of, but also praying and interceding in that way, praying that I think even we could say for us currently in our present temptations that we might not fall into sin. I mean you think about the Lord's prayer, like lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. I think that's a prayer that Jesus in his intercessory work is praying for us even right now. He's praying that later when I drive home and I get cut off in traffic, that I would not succumb to the temptation to act out, lash out in anger, whatever. Yeah. So I think yeah, it is. It's a

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  Powerful thought. And I also think the last thing I do want to say on this about God getting more glory in setting up Christ's work currently as intercessor the way that he did is I think God also gets more glory, but I think it also certainly should keep us more humble and more humbly reliant on Christ at all times. I mean, I think again, if Jesus was just up in heaven celebrating what he had already done right now, I'm constantly either looking back to the moment I was saved or looking forward to the moment that I'll be able to go home and be with him in person. But I think that knowing what Jesus is doing now and knowing that it has to do with me and still with my ongoing struggle with sin should be a constant reminder of our sinfulness and yet our calling to be holy and our should be a motivation and a drive to cause us to flee from temptation and to run to the Lord and to be more humbly reliant on him. So anyway, and again goes back to what I said already about the heresy of Christian perfectionism and denying that, basically denying that there's any need for any current intercessory work of Christ. So

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  I think the one thing I'd just jump on there, I think that's a good kind of where we're heading on our call to holiness, Hebrew seven twenty five, the phrase that we didn't talk about in there is those who draw near to God. And that sense of draw near, again, just relying totally on John Owen and his gigantic 400 year old dead brain for this comes out of basically the verb to worship. It's not just drawing near as a matter of coming into salvation. The sense is the one that draws near to bring their worship to God. So I hope that for all of us here in this room, that we have a heart of worship to the Lord for this and for those listening like this, it doesn't just give us more theology, but theology should always lead towards doxology. It should always lead towards how we want to worship the triune God. And so we save to the uttermost in part for that very purpose so that we might bring him our worship.

  (42:47):

  Yeah, you can't get near to him otherwise, right?

  (42:52):

  No one draws near to God unless

  (42:53):

  He sinners can't get close to God without being incinerated. So yeah, you better have an intercessor. That's good.

  (43:03):

  I think you do a service to all of us by bringing back that point that it's easy to talk about all of this in the theological abstract of it, but above all, it's meant to draw our hearts in affection and warm us to God and that he does delight in us and we should desire to pursue after pleasing our good heavenly Father, not to earn anything more, but simply to bring him pleasure. And in doing so, it should bring us joy in that.

  (43:35):

  It also brings me back to my first point about there basically being two people in this world, those who draw near to God through Christ and those who don't, and those who draw near to God through Christ have an intercessor. I mean, we all need an intercessor, but they have an intercessor and we have an intercessor in Christ, but those who don't worship and who keep God at an arm's length, and yeah, again, God has two very different dispositions toward us. It all depends on whether or not we are covered in Christ's blood or not, whether we were adopted into his family or not. And so that's where to answer my answer. And I think scripture's answer to Darcy's second question about how does all of this impact the way we understand Christ's disposition toward God's disposition toward us? And again, not telling any of us probably anything we don't already know, but just reminding of the glorious truth of Romans eight, one that there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

  (44:51):

  So all of that sense of condemnation and guilt and wrath against sin and punishment and all of that, as Darcy said, was paid for taken dealt with on the cross by Jesus. And as Austin said, is constantly being reminded interceded, pleaded applied to our ongoing sins through Christ ongoing work. And because of that, you think God's disposition. So if it's not condemnation, what is it? You read Zechariah three 17 for us about God singing over us. I think of a couple other just beautiful Psalm, Psalm 1 47 verse 11 that says, the Lord takes pleasure in those who fear him and those who hope in his steadfast love. And again, just a thought that we don't think about often enough, God taking pleasure in us. I tell my kids every night when I tuck 'em into bed, I'm proud of you because I just think of how many kids out there that, and I tell 'em I love 'em too, but who never hear that from their parents. Maybe they hear, I love you. Maybe again, they connect that with some behavior that they've done from that or whatever. But I love being able to tell my kids

  (46:25):

  How much I love 'em and how proud I am of 'em, especially I would say on the days when they're not particularly obedient and there's been lots of discipline because I think that's when they need those reminders the most. But that the Lord takes pleasure in those who fear him and hope in his steadfast love. And Psalm 1 49, verse four, also, the Lord takes pleasure in his people.

  (46:48):

  He adorns the humble with salvation. So if you fear him, if you hope in his steadfast love, if you're humble, the humble will be exalted. The proud and exalted will be humbled. And so praise God that he has by no merit of our own seen fit, to give us that gift of Godly humility and recognizing that we are were sinners and are still sinful and are still therefore in desperate need of not only the once for all time payment, for the penalty of sin, but Christ ongoing help. I mean, just constant humility and turning to him and dependence on him because again, God promises that the humble will be adorned with salvation and that he takes pleasure in us, that that is his disposition toward us.

  (47:53):

  Well, that's it for this week's episode of Ask the Pastors. Remember that you can submit your questions by visiting the info bar at West Hills or by asking them online through our website at www.westhillsscl.org. If you enjoyed this week's episode, hit that like button, subscribe and share it with a friend, and join us next week. We address the question, can the desire to make money be godly? And thanks so much for listening, and God willing, we hope to catch you next week.