Ask the Pastors S7 E2: "What's your response to Charlie Kirk's assassination?"
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Welcome to Ask the Pastors a segment of the West Hills Podcast where you have the opportunity to ask your questions and receive biblically grounded, pastorally sensitive answers from our pastoral staff. My name is Brian, your host, and one of the pastors on staff. I'm joined by Pastor Austin. Hello, our lead pastor, will. Hey and Pastor Thad. Hi everyone. And we have just a bit of a heavier episode where we're just going to kind of reflect on the question that wasn't necessarily submitted by anybody, just us as we were thinking about what would be helpful for us to chat about this week in light of recent events around this question. What's your response to Charlie Kirk's assassination?
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Let me start because I suggested the topic to you. I think Brian, because I've received multiple text emails in person comments, questions from folks who were surprised I guess, or disappointed or frustrated or angry, whatever, that I didn't personally say anything about it this past Sunday. And as I was mentioning that before we started recording, tha had mentioned to me that I guess that means that I'm supposed to resign and everybody's supposed to leave our church according to Mark Driscoll who still has not canceled. So if you're a big Driscoll fan, then sorry, find a new church. So that's a separate topic issue that I actually tried to cover on our after the sermon podcast. So I'm not going to go back over,
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Check that out,
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Why I didn't say anything on Sunday. But what I will say is I appreciate, again, the questions about it and all that. And so I thought it might be helpful, not just for me, but for us too. And we even talked about how to frame up the question for today and whether it should be, how should Christians respond. It's like, you know what? We're not going to try and tell you how you should respond. We're just going to tell you how we're responding, each of us personally, which might be different. I mean, you didn't know who the guy was, right? I don't mean to make you look stupid, but I don't think you did
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When you send the text. I thought to myself, I think I might know who this is. I'm going to Google it. And still to this day, I haven't heard his voice. So just for those, listen, when you hear me talk today, you're going to come from someone that didn't really know who he was. So continue. But I think it may be helpful to have different
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(02:51):
Perspectives, but I'll go ahead and start. So how am I responding in the wake of all this? I think a couple things. My first response, and if I was answering the question, how should a Christian respond, I think I would start by saying, number one shock. And I think it's just sad that we even have to say that these days, that we have sadly become so accustomed to desensitized to this kind of violence and senseless atrocities that it sadly just doesn't shock us When we see another school shooting or we see another assassination attempt on the president, whatever, or an assassination of a Charlie Kirk. I think that is tragic, certainly that a Christian in particular, that we could become so numb and desensitized to the fallen world that we live in. And I think that as Christians, we ought to, as scripture tells us to fix our eyes on heaven, and whatever's good and true and noble and pure and all that, think about these things. It's like if we're doing that, then when we get pulled back down to Earth in reality by something like this, it ought to really just hit hard, whether you know the person or not. And whether it's, yeah, one person you don't know or mass killing sp or any loss of life should just, yeah, really I think send us. And so that's one for me.
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That was my first reaction. My second reaction, my wife was the one who called me and shared the news with me, and she was very upset and emotional about it. And so for me, my next thought was caring for her. And I think that's another one that's again, if I was even thinking about, okay, commending others and how we respond to that, thinking about who does this affect even more than me? I think that's a good selfless Christian thing to do is
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I wasn't a huge fan, but I know I remember hearing about him from this old college friend or this person at work or whatever. So my mind is going to those people, and I was even reading this morning two Corinthians one and the God of all comfort comforting us so that we can comfort others and just thinking, okay, who might need extra comfort right now? I think obviously prayer is a top three. Early initial response for me is to, I mean, obviously praying for, as Eric led us, I thought beautifully this past Sunday and our pastoral prayer and praying for Charlie's wife and kids, but I would go so even farther to say, we ought to be praying for his murder, which is harder, but who needs that prayer? Probably more than anybody, clearly Hering individual, whoever he was is praying another as I more time since then in processing and seeing what's going on in the culture. Another, I think big response for me has been I'm praying for our nation, and it's the kind of thing as Christians in our nation, we ought to be doing more frequently anyway, praying for revival. And
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Obviously it's one of those dangerous prayers if you're really going to pray, God, whatever it takes, whatever it takes to wake people up. We were joking before this about what's your response wokeness. But actually if you think about that word of waking up to, and we had, I mean Alec Mitchell was one who had sent us all an email last week after it happened, just expressing some of the things going on in his heart. But anyway, Alec texted everyone in his family who he knows is not a believer or at least wasn't in a church, and he texted aunts, uncles, cousins, and he had four or five extended family members. Cousins show up this past Sunday. And when I went over to meet him, his cousin told me, I said, Hey, it was really good to have you. He said, well, I'm really glad Alec invited me.
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He said, it's just been such a hard week. He's like, I don't know about you, but I was a huge Charlie Kirk fan. And he said, I just feel like this is a pivotal moment in my life. And he said, I feel like the veil has been lifted and I have woken up to the reality of the spiritual battle that we're locked in here in a way that I was just asleep to. And he said, it just woke me up that the, there's no longer room for me to be on the sidelines. He's like, I would've told you passively a Christian whatever, grew up in church, haven't been in years just kind of doing my own thing. He's like, I don't want to waste anymore of my life.
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There's an eternal spiritual battle going on here, and I was just ignoring it and I can't do it anymore. So anyway, I think mean that has been my prayer, is that God would bring more of those kind of testimonies out in individuals lives and not just individuals, but culturally for these kind of cultural nominal Christians to again, just see that there's no room for sideline Christians right now if there is such a thing, anyway, get off the fence. You're in it or you're out of this battle. So anyway, those are all sadness. I mean, that's a hard one for me and for I think men in general, if I can stereotype to, I think it's hard for us to know how to be sad or to allow ourselves to be sad, so we just get mad instead.
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And so I've certainly, anger, I mean is another one, anger is that was part of Alex question to us and the emails, how should a Christian, is it bad for me to be feeling this righteous indignation anger? I'm like, no. I mean, we're creating God's image that's justice. And read the Psalms. I mean a fifth of 'em are imprecatory. And so I think we can respond with anger or sadness. And if I can just add one last one and then I'll shut up, is I really do hope too that as much as praying for those who weren't in the fight and mobilized before, praying for those who are already clearly on team Jesus and whatever, we can all be more evangelistic. We can all be more passionate and outspoken and all of it in our faith. And if you know anything about Charlie Kirk, I think you're going to know that he was very passionate and outspoken about his faith.
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When people are going to talk in the wake of this about political violence and again, arose by any other name, I mean you can call it whatever you want. All of life is political. All of life is religious, spiritual. Obviously we're going to come at it through a spiritual lens, but he wasn't killed. This is one thing I've said in the weak sense is no one gets killed over their fiscal responsibility, opinions like Charlie Kirk wasn't killed because he was outspoken against big government. He was killed because he was outspoken for the truth on on things that some are going to call political, but especially, I mean more details are going to come out about moss and this and that, but I mean, people don't kill over. You are in favor of a smaller budget than me. They kill over. You don't validate my life choices and lifestyle and existence, and I mean it's going to be the transgender stuff, it's going to be the homosexuality.
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It is going to be the abortion stuff. It's going to be you. Your speech is hate speech. It's violence against me and my people and our lifestyles. I mean, it's those things. And so I guess if I can add one more emotion reaction, I mean there is some fear just a little bit for me that I think is appropriate as someone who is not at all anywhere near the stratosphere of his platform. But I kind of half joking a little bit, not really jokingly, sent a text to the elders after hearing the news, pray for his family. I said, look, hey, we're still planning for this renovation. It might not be a terrible thing to circle back to discussion of a bulletproof pulpit, but it's sad that we obviously even have to think about that.
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But it's true. And I mean, God forbid that someone will pull this out of the archives years from now and say, oh, he was prophetic and how sad and true now that he's been shot in the pulpit. But I mean, it's like who is, it's not the economist who are Republicans. It's going to be the spiritual, religious it is. It's a spiritual battle. And there are real, I do agree demonic forces at play behind this. And there's a reason scripture uses that metaphor of war all the time over and over again because locked in it. So anyway, I think, but again, we're not called perfect love, cast out fear. And so I just pray that I would be filled, that our people would be filled, that some of Charlie Kirk's boldness in his faith in just unapologetic stance for truth. And yet this is what was so beautiful about him was his ability on a dime to just, if somebody's going to be arguing with him and being aggressive and militant, he can give it right back.
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But as soon as he saw an opening of the person's humanity or when they started to not be able to answer his questions because they have stupid opinions and he could rebut all of them and they started to soften, he would share his faith and he would express grace, I'm going to be praying for you. I can tell you're a hurting. And there was humility too. Look, I don't have it all figured out, but I think I have some things figured out that you don't yet and I'm going to be praying for you. I think you need Jesus anyway. So I hope that we could be filled with that kind of truth and grace like scripture says, because I think he was a really good example of that. So that's off the top of my head of my own responses. How about you guys?
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Yeah, some overlapping with yours. Shock, I think of the first one just I getting a text from Nikki and then Jeffrey later coming in and sharing just more details of it. So I think just first initial shock, second lament about we can say his religious values, but that we've entered a time and place in our country where politics has trumped personhood that we cannot see someone as another human being. Again, we could get into a whole conversation from a Christian worldview about image bearers, but unable to see someone with an opposing political viewpoint as a person. Humanity, it makes me just so deeply saddened and that I think even further, just hearing from parents and others in our church, seeing on social media, people rejoicing over the assassination hearing of students passing around the video at school and being unaffected by it, being numbed by it, that it makes me lament and weep and sorrowful for the current state of how we view human beings
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In the future state, in the future, state of students, that's next generation of what is this doing to you now? Where will we be in the future? And just thinking about it, we didn't pivot on Wednesday, but God providentially this week preaching on everyone being made in the image of God and what that means. And I plan to, this is what it means. Again, whether or not directly bringing up Charlie Kirk, but just in general speaking that in more passionate about helping students see that everyone made in the image of God deserving of value, dignity, respect, that it means something to be human.
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Some of them, I would say hopeful is another response In Sunday, I told you, I think it was Monday or Sunday afternoon, just I was not surprised by the surge uptick of people attending service here. And then hearing later on of churches near me searches up of hearing from other pastor friends how many more attended than regular. It makes me hopeful that people are waking up to, and you just hope it's not a temporary thing, a temporary thing. And I do for just the individuals who brought up, I wish you would've said more. I'm sympathetic to that. It's very, it's not very often where something occurs and everyone is aware of it. Every adult, I should say is aware of it. And so again, I think it's on eternity is imprinted on man's heart and mind. And so I think that's some of what we've seen. I hope it continues. It makes me hopeful, it makes me encourage, it makes me embolden neighbors that we've recently connected with. Did you see what happened? And praying that that continues to open doors to embolden myself and Nikki to have more conversations with 'em. It makes me hopeful.
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I go in waves. I would not consider myself a huge Charlie Kirk fan. I've talked to some people, they're like, I followed him for seven, eight years. I'm like, I kept up. I saw things like some didn't like others. And again, not the, but the question of there was a unique boldness to engage in those conversations and just in my own mind of how much more I should personally feel convicted of being emboldened to step into some of those conversations, not to be a debater or anything, but to have charitable conversations with those of opposing viewpoints. Again, not to push anything other than the gospel with 'em. I think there was a unique art and craft that was there. And again, to use that for a evangelistic perspective, I'm sure I could sit and talk about more, but when I don't have notes, it's like, here's what you get.
(21:49):
Yeah. I guess I'm coming from quite a different perspective. As we already discussed, I didn't really know who he was. And so I think one of my ways I've been responding first is just reflecting largely through surprise. I've been really, because to your point, will we've been desensitized because the amount of just public shootings of different levels, the fact that this has really, really been kind of a fever pitch moment to people I've been very, very curious about. And this guy clearly was touching on something that's got a lot of
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Folks
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Feeling a lot of different things. So part of it has been surprised in just reflecting on what are the stories that are currently shaping our people, and especially young men. Young men historically,
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Especially in the western world in the past several hundred years, are often on a search for meaning. And there's different voices that can help give them that. I think it's of course tragic that his death isn't just as it is, is pointing some of those young men towards really reevaluating their faith. Like you mentioned young men coming to our church saying, I'm not going to just kind of take this as a thing on the side privatize religion that I'll give you maybe 40 minutes once every five Sundays, but that that's causing them to take a step back and realize this is really important and they're right. It is really important. I've also tried to think about where is the story of the gospel relevant for this particular conversation. And a couple of them that have come to mind for me is one is the issue of grief is will, you made the point that men often don't know how to do sad.
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They go straight to anger. And we see Jesus in the gospels weeping with those who weep and considered the example of Lazarus. Boom, he raises from the dead after time goes by, he could have walked up and said, everybody, hold on. I got this Lazarus come out. And then boom, the whole thing would've been done, but he actually stops to weep with those who weep. And so in that sense, I think it is appropriate for us to weep because of the horrible injustice that has happened. Regardless of whether you agree with him politically or not. This is someone that has made in the image of God. At the same time, I was reflecting on the issue of justice in general, but also the hope in particular with that. You mentioned the word hope and hopeful and partially hopeful now of how this is kind of a way that people might be re-energized to reflect upon eternal matters and spiritual matters. But this is one of those moments where I think keeping in view that Christ cares so much more about justice than we do,
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And
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That for whatever reason he is holding back the curtain such that evil is able to endure for a time, but he is still the righteous judge who will return and put all things back to right. And as such, also just a helpful reminder is that justice has belonged to the Lord. We do have a way in which as those who bear his image and who live in and among his creation do justice and righteousness in the world, but we ultimately look forward to the day when the righteous does actually does bring about the righteousness upon evil. And so that we have a hope in that. And then my concern or caution or wondering, I know I'm supposed to be talking about what am I doing, but maybe I'll be a tad preacher for the moment because I know people clearly really
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Care.
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And as I've noticed from the outside looking in on this issue, people are really, really caring about this. One
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Is to have the heart of Christ first, which is one of compassion. The enemy isn't our neighbor, right? The enemy is the indwelling sin that is in this world and the one who rules over in that way. So it is not the time to pick up the sword, so to speak. If it is, it's the sword of the word of God. It is the truth that comes from it. And to love those that are so tragically blinded by the effects of sin, to have such a heart that has been twisted by hate as the murderer was to take the kind of act that he did. So that's kind of my exhortation. So those are some of the things that I've been reflecting on. Be able to agree with those who grieve, have the hope that comes that Christ is the righteous just, and if we think that we're angered by injustice, how much more is our creator, whose level of sense of injustice far exceeds ours that we ever will. So we can in that sense also be hopeful to him in those things. So that's my response.
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Yeah,
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I like that y'all both pointed out the hope I should have mentioned, but now I'll end with it. And just reiterating that too, the hope that we share that not just as you said about the righteous Jesus is going to come and judge and put it all right, and that's certainly a source of hope, but also the hope of eternity, the hope that Charlie shared and is now enjoying and seeing and face fully the hope of eternal life. And I think, yeah, you're right. I couldn't end a conversation without chiming back in on that and saying, yeah, that something like this, any death, but certainly one as tragic and senseless as this ought to just heighten our appreciation for the hope that we have and frankly, heighten our appetite for a world that's no longer marred by sin and death and evil. And so not that I'm looking for any bullets anytime soon, don't hear me saying that, but I'd like to stay here a little bit longer, but to live as Christ to dies gain. So
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Yeah. Amen. Well, I was wondering, just to close with one of you, maybe Thad, just be willing to pray for our nation as we just close the podcast.
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Our Father, we come before you and just knowing how much of this situation is still on people's mind, and we do pray for what feels like much division, what feels like much senseless violence, what feels like heightened tensions, that through this we know you will, but we pray for your glory to be received through it. We pray that many who are far from you will be awakened to the despair of their sin that they would come to hear. The hope as we close with, of the gospel of this is not how things are supposed to be, but there is a much greater hope and greater place and presence for us. I do pray for all of those who are still wrestling with their emotions, going through ups and downs and grieving and wanting action, wanting to arise and go to war, that they would place that in the right focus and their war would be against the forces of darkness, Satan's schemes and lies, that they would not see those with opposing political viewpoints and as enemies of flesh, but they would see those as lost and ensnared by the wicked One. Would you help us as a church to lead the charge in the light, the compassion of Christ, the hope of the gospel and the hope of the resurrection that we share? We need the spirit's guidance and leading in this and your son's name. Amen. Amen. Thanks.
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That's it for this week's episode of Ask the Pastors. Remember that you can submit your questions by visiting the info bar at West Hills by asking them online through our website at www.westhillsstl.org. And if you enjoyed this week's episode, hit that like button, subscribe and share it with a friend. Thanks so much for listening, and we're willing, we'll catch you right back here next week.