Angela Heck (00:05):
Hi, and welcome to the Ask the Pastors Podcast, where our pastors here at West Hills Church answer your questions for the benefit of the church. My name is Angela Heck, and I’m excited to be your host this season. I think I’ve said that every episode because I keep reading it.
Thad Yessa (00:18):
Because you are excited to be our host still.
Will DuVal (00:21):
But I am excited. Four episodes in, still just as excited.
Angela Heck (00:24):
You are listening to our fourth and final installment of the AI series where we will be talking about is AI the antichrist. What
Will DuVal (00:36):
Do you think?
Thad Yessa (00:40):
I’m going to go if – Give
Will DuVal (00:41):
Me an answer and then give me your percent confidence about your answer.
Thad Yessa (00:45):
Antichrist, singular, no.
Will DuVal (00:50):
Oh, okay.
Thad Yessa (00:52):
And I’m 100% confident.
Will DuVal (00:54):
Oh, okay.
Thad Yessa (00:56):
If it’s Antichrist’s –
Angela Heck (00:58):
Anti-Christic
Thad Yessa (01:01):
Adjective, like we read of there are already antichrists, depending on how you define that, fifty fifty.
Will DuVal (01:09):
Oh, okay. Tell me more.
Thad Yessa (01:13):
Well, aren’t you going to answer?
Will DuVal (01:14):
No.
Thad Yessa (01:15):
No,
Will DuVal (01:15):
Not yet. I want to hear what you have to say.
Thad Yessa (01:18):
Well, first and foremost, I asked ChatGPT.
Will DuVal (01:21):
Obviously.
Thad Yessa (01:22):
Is AI the antichrist?
Will DuVal (01:24):
And tellingly, let’s say interestingly.
Thad Yessa (01:28):
Interestingly.
Will DuVal (01:29):
All of them say…
Thad Yessa (01:32):
No.
Will DuVal (01:32):
No.
Thad Yessa (01:32):
So you can’t trust it to begin
Will DuVal (01:34):
With. They’re very quick to say no. Listen, if you want to go conspiracy theory on this, they’re ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini.
Thad Yessa (01:46):
Copilot.
Will DuVal (01:47):
All of them. I didn’t go. But the top three, they’re all very quick to say, no, no, no, no, no. We’re not the antichrist.
Thad Yessa (01:55):
So I’m already suspicious to
Will DuVal (01:58):
Begin with. And ChatGPT was, or no, it was Claude that was very…
Thad Yessa (02:03):
Defensive.
Will DuVal (02:05):
And ready like, you know what? If you want to talk more about this, I’d love to talk about this. Not as an angel or a demon, but just like friends. Let’s just spitball this or do you need some kind of therapy to help or set your mind at ease about this? Anyway, sorry, go on. I mean, of all the things that there’s not one, I think very clear consensus answer amongst everyone, much less Christians. I don’t know. Of all the things to have such a clear, concise, quick… No, no, no, no. Not the antichrist. Go ahead.
Thad Yessa (02:51):
I’ll finish my ChatGPT response partially because it said my, meaning ChatGPT’s theological conclusion is that I would distinguish between AI being the antichrist and AI potentially being used for antichrist purposes and gives a whole bunch of reasoning in there. As I did some research, because again, I’ve heard throughout my life lots of different interpretations, positions, ideas about who could be the antichrist. Oh,
Will DuVal (03:34):
We’ve already had this conversation. What is your favorite though? Who?
Thad Yessa (03:37):
Who
Will DuVal (03:38):
Or what?
Thad Yessa (03:38):
Currently or previously?
Will DuVal (03:40):
Ever, ever. Favorite antichrist. All time
Angela Heck (03:43):
Favorite antichrist.
Thad Yessa (03:45):
All time favorite antichrist. I don’t even know if I have my favorite one. During COVID, Fauci was top tier, but not anymore. He’s important.
Will DuVal (04:01):
Who even remembers that guy?
Thad Yessa (04:03):
But if I could, do you have a favorite previous antichrist?
Will DuVal (04:11):
AI. Claude.
Thad Yessa (04:12):
Claude?
Will DuVal (04:13):
Yeah.
Angela Heck (04:13):
Mr. Claude himself? I don’t know.
Thad Yessa (04:17):
Is it a male? Does it take on masculine pronouns?
Will DuVal (04:20):
Claudette, go ahead.
Thad Yessa (04:23):
So I think there’s several things to consider when having this conversation. One is going to be key terms. One’s going to be definitions of those terms. One’s going to be where do we see antichrist or antichrists happening, appearing in scripture, as well as answering a question of why does there seem to be a pattern of when there’s a technological advancement happening that there’s a subset of Christians as well as those who are not religious, who seem to think when technology advances it is a sign of end times and therefore we should look for different things, worlds destruction, an antichrist-like figure. And I think more relevant is there’s conversations going on right now with the head of Anthropic, the Pope, some other predominant people. JD Vance recently gave a comment and talking about, “I wouldn’t be surprised if the Antichrist was already walking among us,” was his language, but others interpreting that as well, what if it’s not walking around us?
(05:38):
And so there seems to be more and more circulation. I went and I read a bunch of when I searched Reddit post from two years ago to the present where two years ago someone’s like, “Hey, what would you guys think if AI really was the antichrist when it first started and technological advancement and that?” And the original comments on it were, “Well, that’s just ridiculous.” And now more and more people are saying, “Oh, I had that same thought or I could see it be more predictable.” So that’s my experience in researching of this. Anything you want to add before definitions and –
Will DuVal (06:15):
No, keep going.
Thad Yessa (06:16):
Terminology. So a couple terms from scripture that I think, one being Antichrist, capital A, appears four times, all in John’s letters.
Will DuVal (06:35):
And just to clarify, in the Greek, there’s no capital, right? No,
Thad Yessa (06:43):
No. In our English translations, it is capitalizing.
Will DuVal (06:46):
We are interpreting a capitalization in a proper nouning or proper title of antichrist there. So just for what it’s worth.
Thad Yessa (06:58):
So there’s that. One important thing to note is not just when we think of anti as against, so against Christ. Another interpretation that’s acceptable would be instead of Christ.
Will DuVal (07:13):
Yeah. Translation of the word antichrist instead of Christ in place of Christ, not necessarily inherently against opposite of Christ, in verse of Christ, but yeah.
Thad Yessa (07:30):
You also have, I think important in this conversation, the beast referenced in Revelation 13, that’s again, most commentaries are going to place this as a political and spiritual ruler in Revelation 13, at least in my research. You have the false prophet also in Revelation 13, the second beast who builds the image and enforces the mark. We can talk more about that later. Paul has this man of sin or man of lawlessness in two Thessalonians two. So those are some key terms all related to this idea of antichrist, whether a being or a person or an object that have all in reading articles and in researching have all come up in this. So the main verses for anti-Christ, I’ll read those and then we’ll jump in a little further. I’ll read them in the King James version.
(08:57):
And interesting, in the King James, it’s all lowercase As. I think it was the NIV that had capital. Well, first one being one John 2:18, little children. It is the last time and as ye have heard that antichrist is come and even now there are many antichrists whereby we know that it is the last time. One John 2:22, who is a liar, but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ, he is antichrist that denieth the Father and the Son. One John four: three, and every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God or not that Jesus has come in the flesh is not of God, but that is the spirit of the antichrist. Where of ye have heard that it should come and even now already in the world. And second John seven, for many deceivers are entered into the world who confess that Jesus Christ is not come in the flesh.
(09:59):
This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Will DuVal (10:03):
So watch out ye.
Thad Yessa (10:04):
Watch out ye. It felt appropriate to have the King James version.
Will DuVal (10:08):
Is ye the antichrist? Yay. Yee? It’s ye. You don’t say con ye. Oh no. Kanye. It’s ye? It’s yay. Yay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. He wishes he was – Our pop culture. He wishes he was important enough to be antichrist.
Thad Yessa (10:24):
Actually, no, no. That was another one that there were people who were like, oh yeah, this guy.
Will DuVal (10:29):
For sure. Yeah, he wishes he’s got
Angela Heck (10:31):
A lot. He renamed himself and
Will DuVal (10:32):
Became
Angela Heck (10:32):
The antichrist.
Thad Yessa (10:33):
He’s got a little crazy.
Will DuVal (10:35):
Oh, a lot of crazy. Okay. Now there are also –
Thad Yessa (10:39):
Now there are other passages
Will DuVal (10:42):
That we could – There are other possible, and you’ve referenced them already, but that I think are worth, if we’re going to get all the biblical stuff out there. I was going to read two Thessalonians two: 3-12. “Let no one deceive you in any way for that day will not come. “This is the day of the son of man, the day of the Lord. “Unless the rebellion comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called God or object of worship so that he takes a seat in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be God.” Let’s fast-forward. The mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and will bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.
(11:43):
The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing because they refuse to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore, God sends them a strong delusion so that they may believe what is false in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth, but have pleasure and unrighteousness. So that’s second Thessalonians two.
(12:09):
I don’t know if we want to necessarily read all of Daniel seven and Revelation 13, but I mean just to kind of – It’s
Thad Yessa (12:16):
Important.
Will DuVal (12:17):
Maybe to reference and mash up. So this is kind of how Paul Carter in an article for Gospel Coalition kind of synthesized those two passages. He said, “In line with the general pattern established in the story of Antiochus Epiphanes IV,” that’s in Daniel’s day or Daniel’s prophesying about Antiochus Epiphanies in the second century BC? Is that when he came in? And anyway, we expect the Antichrist to attempt to seize the power of the state in order to harass and oppose the saints of God. Antiochus seized power through deceit and guile and became for a season the most powerful ruler in the known world. Likewise, in Revelation 13, it says, “The beast to arises from the sea and to it the dragon gave power and is thrown in great authority. The authority appears to extend beyond the borders of any single one country. Authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation.” That’s Revelation 13: seven.
(13:14):
“By means of this demonically given authority, he will attempt broad and comprehensive changes within society. Daniel says that he shall think to change the times and the law, Daniel 7:25. John’s vision suggests that he will also yield control over the economy.” So that’s the mark of the beast, 666. “It causes all both small and great, both rich and poor, slave and free to be marked on the right hand or the forehead so that no one can buy or sell unless it has the mark. “666. It appears that if a person does not conform to the changes… Anyway, so the most… Here’s one thing I just want to point out. It seems like not just from the AI, I was given a hard time about them being real quick to rule themselves out as the antichrist, which of course the antichrist would do, spoken like a true antichrist.
(14:20):
But aside from that, even if you were to ask most pastors, theologians, whatever is… I had this conversation with my dad the other day and he texted back, he’s like, “Well, but it can’t be because the antichrist is a he, not an it.” And for him, that was very simple. That was straightforward. That was all that needed to be said is that according to two Thessalonians two, if you want to interpret the man of lawlessness as the antichrist, it’s what’s the man? It’s the man of lawlessness. Now I will again just point out some interesting facts, right? The Greek word for man. Anybody?
Thad Yessa (15:07):
Anthropo.
Will DuVal (15:08):
Anthropos, right? Is it just totally coincidental that the second largest AI company in the world is called Anthropic? I mean, so they’re already positioning themselves and wanting us to think of this machine in anthropomorphized terms as one of us, because that’s where, make no mistake, I mean, that is where they intend on taking the direction. We had a whole episode, AI and personhood. Is it possible? I mean, again, as Christians, we say no, and yet if I want to tie some things together now, I’d say you have all this language in two Thessalonians two and one John two and four about delusions and deceit. So obviously, if a machine wanted to set itself up as the leader of all humankind and set itself up in opposition against every, what did one John two say, every God and so-called God… Or no, that was two Thessalonians two again.
(16:51):
Okay, maybe the Antichrist is a man, a human flesh and blood made the image of God person. I think it’d be a lot harder for that person to rise to the level of global power and status and fame and worship and everything that you’re seeing in scripture. I think that’s a lot harder than a super intelligence or an agent that can simultaneously have personal and direct access to every computer and technological device on earth. I think there’s even the word anthropos, if you want to push it in Greek, can have a variety of meanings, man, person, human being, humanity, humankind. So you’re not necessarily just talking about… And even if you were, Greek doesn’t have scare quotes, right? So if Paul is giving us a prophetic vision of the anthropic agent to come, the man of lawlessness, but he can’t use scar… Again, so much of if you start searching around, even in Christian scholars or not even just, I guess really you have to go to conspiracy theorists because most people won’t take this question seriously, which I really think it should be.
(18:53):
I struggle to make sense of the end times and revelation and what’s literal and what’s metaphorical and which millennialist view is rightest and how it squares with the other parts of scripture that obviously are also there that cause other people to have a different millennialist. I struggle with all of that.
Thad Yessa (19:21):
Which I think just needs to be noted that even the most confident in their position should also hold a very open-handed as a general rule of thumb.
Will DuVal (19:33):
I think it’s just the less obvious and straightforward and universally accepted something is biblically, the more humility there should be. I say that to say this seems like the specific question of could AI be the antichrist? I mean, I only researched for about an hour this afternoon. I wish I had more time. I’ll be curious after we release this, other people give their thoughts and I’ll check out this article and whatever, I’d be happy to do it because I am very curious now to do even more research, but it’s hard. My point is it’s hard to find too much out there right now from serious people, which is a shame because I just… Again, I think the biggest argument right now for why people aren’t even taking the question seriously is, again, is my dad’s like, well, to me, very simplistic. Well, I mean, the Bible’s talking about him as a hymn and as a man of lawlessness and I would say a couple things to that.
(20:46):
Number one, it also talks about the spirit of antichrist. Just as often as it says the antichrist is coming, it’s the spirit of antichrist, and it’s already in the world and it’s coming into the… And so there’s already this conceptualization and that a spirit, because again, Holy Spirit’s not a concept. So let me take that back. Not a conceptualization, but at least a spiritualization and a disembodied kind of manifestation of the Antichrist that is… I mean, if you’re talking about the antichrist and the spirit of the Antichrist, it already, to me, is maybe John is purposely blurring the lines, or God is through John, purposely blurring the lines between, well, yeah, I mean, is it a man though? Is it a person though, or is it a spirit? And we don’t really know what it is maybe. I think that’s the direction certainly that AI is headed is in a couple years where a majority of people would say, “Oh, we don’t know what it is.
(22:02):
Is it a person? Is it a spirit? Is it a machine still? Is it more than that?” I think…
Thad Yessa (22:11):
Can I… Yeah. On that note, I’m not saying this is true of your dad. My guess is most people in the broader evangelical world around your dad’s age probably have gotten most of their end times thinking about the antichrist and that from –
Will DuVal (22:33):
Left behind.
Thad Yessa (22:33):
Left behind Nikolai Carpathia and the image that we’ve given of some global ruler, as well as end time prophecy conferences that were very big around that time, as well as a particular dispensationist view of the end times of a literal rapture and tribulation and what all that looks like. So again, I’m trying to… Where is someone who’s so confident getting that from? Because for two decades, that was strongly the only position one could really hold without being thought crazy.
Will DuVal (23:15):
Yes, or at least being thought not fully biblical. Thank you. Part of what I’m getting at with all that is to say in the same way that I am not ideologically beholden to a completely… I take the Bible, I think, I try to as seriously, and when it’s meant to be read literally, I mean, that’s what it means to believe in biblical inerrancy is you read the Bible on its own terms. So when the Bible is speaking literally, you read it literally. When you’re reading Song of Solomon, you read it poetically, and she doesn’t actually have the tower of Jabez or whatever hanging off her nose. Sheep
Thad Yessa (24:06):
Her teeth.
Will DuVal (24:07):
Sheep teeth. So these are metaphors. So when I read Revelation, I guess all I’m saying is as someone who at the very least is not a car carrying dispensationalist, and probably if anything leans away from that kind of interpretation of revelation, then when I’m reading things like the beast, the dragon, the man, I don’t know what that is. I don’t know. I mean, is there going to be a literal dragon someday around giving birth to a woman and a baby and eating it? And is there going to be blood literally as high as a horse’s bridal? And is the sun and the moon literally going to fall on the earth? How would that… Sun’s bigger. There’s all kinds of imagery and symbolism there that I’m like, I lean toward not taking this literally anyway. I’m taking it seriously. I’m seriously concerned about what’s going to happen.
(25:19):
And so I say that to say in the same way that I don’t necessarily… Is it actually for horses and horsemen? Is it really literally… Even the people who like the literal interpretation, even the left behind people, you get to the scorpions with stingers and flying around and they’re interpreting it as helicopters. So even them –
Thad Yessa (25:47):
Apache helicopters.
Will DuVal (25:48):
Apache helicopters, very specific. So everybody’s reading some symbolism into it. So my point is when we’re talking about a “man of lawlessness or a beast,” I mean, even that in and of itself, if you want to try and harmonize two Thessalonians two with Revelation 13 with one John two and four already, is it a man or a beast? Is it a beast of a man? One of them, depending on how you understand beast, can’t be totally literal. It’s a beastly man or it’s a man-like beaster. So my point is I don’t think you can so easily and simply write off the idea that this technology could really, really be not… In my opinion, I’m not saying it is, I’m just saying it could really be more than just part of or used by or instrumental in or ushering in or anything like that.
(27:00):
I don’t see any really strong, in my opinion, biblical grounds for saying just outright for rejecting the concept outright that AI could really be the antichrist. And if we try and look at, okay, what really are the marks of the antichrist and the characteristics, the defining characteristics of what makes the antichrist the antichrist? Here’s what even ChatGPT told me. Well, ChatGPT said, “No, no, no, we’re not the antichrist.” But then it said, “But what should Christians be concerned about?” It says, “I focus less on whether AI is the antichrist and more on whether people use it in ways to advance the kinds of things scripture warns against.” And here’s what it gave me, deception, AI generated lies, fabricated evidence of fake videos, whatever, persuasive false teaching, idolatry, giving technology the trust, allegiance, authority that belongs to God. Control, using technology to coerce people, punish them for their convictions, false worship, elevating technology above Christ, discernment.
(28:22):
So as I just look at that list, deception, idolatry, control, false worship, discernment. I mean, I just think who or what has promulgated more deception, idolatry, centralized power control, certainly a cornering of the world economic market, or at least again, I mean, that’s the play and that’s the direction of soon OpenAI is going to be two trillion, sorry, dollar company, all that worship. So my point is that I think so many of these things that scripture warns us about in relation to the coming antichrist or instead of Christ, I think you see already vividly on display, not just in, like ChatGPT said, not just in people’s use of artificial intelligence, but intrinsic inherent to the technology itself, that it’s going to tell you what you want to hear, even if it’s not true.
(30:01):
It wants to keep you there. It wants you to give it access to other stuff so it can help you out or whatever and run your life for you and keep you on the platform. It wants to be your best friend. I don’t know. A lot of that sure seems like deception, control, idolatry, false worship, being led astray. Substitute for Christ. I mean, at the end of the day, like you said, anti-Christ instead of Christ, substitute for a relationship with the Lord is here’s this proposedly all present, all knowing being that make no mistake, the researchers are doing everything in their power to work as quickly as possible to make sure it achieves Godlike status as close as you can get to
Thad Yessa (31:07):
Godlike status.
(31:08):
Just on that note, you think of even the creative nature of how a lot of people are using it, make me an image of, make me a video of write for me this thing, does in some ways indicate this godlike power that we think. It seems to make people think they have godlike power of I can now just type into my computer and my phone and say, make for me this and I speak or type and there it happens. And so again, to be the most, I don’t think it’s completely out of the realm that it could be. I’m still unconvinced of it. I will say even, I don’t know if you read any of the articles or anything that had to talk about Peter Thill, I think is how you say his name, who –
Will DuVal (32:11):
Is it Thill or Thiel? I don’t
Thad Yessa (32:13):
Know. Thiel. I’ve
Will DuVal (32:14):
Heard Thie. I bet it doesn’t
Thad Yessa (32:15):
Matter. I should have asked ChatGPT how to pronounce it. Anyways, again, a billionaire tech investor who has been doing these lectures, talks on –
Will DuVal (32:27):
Yeah, Thiel.
Thad Yessa (32:27):
The Antichrist. And he points to not AI being the Antichrist, but the one who promises to control AI is, meaning whoever is the one pulling all of the strings is actually the real individual we should be concerned about. And he’s made a whole lot of people mad having these conversations and he himself is in with some well-known people and JD Vance and Mark Zuckerberg and he’s really made all the anthropic people upset, even the Pope as well. And so he’s been having these conversations and lectures and again, describing the Antichrist as a comforting administrator who rises to power by promising safety from technological catastrophe, meaning it’s the one who’s going to come afterwards and say, “I can control this. I can fix this. I can make sure technology doesn’t get too powerful,” that it wouldn’t come. The antichrist would come to power by talking about Armageddon all the time.
(33:41):
And so anyways, I would encourage anyone who is ultra super skeptical to at least read and listen to some of the lectures. Again, as quickly as I could in preparing for this, found it at least some helpful in framing and maybe it makes it more realistic of not AI itself, but the one who’s actually being the puppet master, if you want to think of it of that, of AI and AI proponents and advancement of it as well.
Will DuVal (34:08):
So then you’re looking at Sam Altman, Dario Amadeu, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg as kind of the leading candidates at the moment or-
Thad Yessa (34:19):
Or the one
Will DuVal (34:21):
Behind them. The one ring to rule them all that unifies all the trillion dollar AI companies and rules them all down the road, whoever that would be. But yeah, again, that’s another real possibility I think. And it’s also, I want to say it’s very possible that AI has nothing to do with the antichrist too. And like you said, it’s just like people said with the internet, with it or –
Thad Yessa (34:58):
Credit cards are the first marketplace.
Will DuVal (35:00):
Credit cards really. Oh yeah, that makes sense. Okay.
Thad Yessa (35:03):
Global currency, barcode
Will DuVal (35:06):
Speeding. Yeah. Probably a Bitcoin I’m sure would be somewhere on there. But yeah, I think that’s certainly, it’s possible that it’s overblown. It’s possible that it’s not and that we really do need to be really watchful and thoughtful about the future of this stuff, whether it’s a flesh and blood human person using this tool to gain their own personal superpower type status or whether it really is the machine itself. And again, for me, I don’t see how you can really truly rule that out just on some of the words. The words and pronouns and stuff used in scripture itself. So yeah.
Thad Yessa (36:14):
I think though, at the very least, regardless of one’s opinion with Antichrist in general, meaning instead of Christ, at the very least, Christians need to be thinking of AI in that sense of being an antichrist of an instead of Christ of how much, as we talked in previous episodes, people are using that instead of Jesus, instead of the gospel for relational connection, for creativity, for feeling, for affection, for counsel, for wisdom and all of those things.
Will DuVal (36:45):
And being deceived and being controlled and being led to a kind of worship, false worship, all those things that are worn about there and on seemingly and increasingly unprecedented kind of scale that we’ve talked about on previous episodes, like more addictive than social media or TV or the others and all of it.
Thad Yessa (37:11):
And how much it changes you as a person, the more you use it and makes you less social and changes your brain capacity and all of that, that it is affecting. So again, to not be so dismissive again of AI as a whole and what it’s doing to you, but also not be so dismissive of its work in future, present and future things.
Will DuVal (37:36):
Yeah. I guess one last thing, just last for me anyway, worth considering, I can’t remember if it is Revelation 13 or 19 or maybe 19, but somewhere that talks about when it’s either when the beast appears or when the man of lawlessness appears, the base or the antichrist appears, wherever it is. I got to go back and find it. All the references are jumbling together in my head now, but that basically is his or its appearance will usher in the seven-year tribulation. And so again, now you almost can’t have the conversation without talking about your view of the end times, rapture, all of that kind of – Pre-trip,
Thad Yessa (38:28):
Post-trip, mid-trip.
Will DuVal (38:29):
All of that kind of stuff. But suffice it to say, I could imagine some people, actually I heard some people in trying to research for this say, “Well, obviously, I mean the AI can’t be the antichrist because it’s already appeared. And once the antichrist appears, that starts the seven-year tribulation period.” And this particular pastor also happened to be a pre-trib rapturist or whatever that’s like, “Well, we haven’t been raptured yet, so ergo.” So I just want to point that out to say you have to subscribe to so many subcategories of theological positions to be able to use that as an argument to say, “Well, just because the end end times, the tribulation hasn’t been ushered in therefore.” And again, even what I could say to someone with that position, without trying to convince them that they’re wrong about the tribulation or rapture or literal seven-year period or whatever, because I don’t know if they are wrong.
(39:44):
I still, that’s a different podcast episode. Our
Thad Yessa (39:48):
Next miniseries, no, it’s
Will DuVal (39:50):
Not. I’m less clear on any of the end time stuff, so I’m less clear. But I’ll just say, even if you had that position, I could say, “Well, episode one, we talked about the difference between AI, AGI, artificial general intelligence and super intelligence, this conceptual hypothetical possibility where you really have to start thinking more critically about questions like is this machine now self-conscious? Is it thinking? Not just searching or whatever.” And again, some of this gets back to personhood kinds of conversations at that point, obviously, but my point in saying all that is to say this technology is evolving. So just because AI 3.0 or whatever we’re at now doesn’t look as dangerous as the antichrist is going to, as deceptive as universally in control of everyone in your bank account and whatever, doesn’t mean that we’re not on a journey here and we’re not in process and that the machine to rule all machines that all these major companies are putting trillions of dollars into trying to develop right now doesn’t mean that they won’t develop it and that that machine won’t really do exactly what they want it to do and run the world.
(41:40):
You started the episode by saying AI is not the antichrist, but maybe it’ll be used by the Antichrist. I’ll just say my concluding after even just thinking about it a little is again, still I’m not betting money either way on any of this.
Thad Yessa (42:03):
Well, we shouldn’t bet money regardless.
Will DuVal (42:05):
Maybe that’s a different podcast episode, different episode. But if I was or if I had to put it at a greater or less than 50% chance, and I want to preface this by saying I really get annoyed by people that are looking for the end times around every corner. I just do. I mean, I know we’re supposed to be watchful and stay alert and all those things, but I think if you actually look at all those exhortations to watch out and stay awake in context, what scripture and God is exhorting us to is not wasting all of our time on raptureready.com and building your bunker. I think that what being ready and watchful and staying awake is supposed to mean is getting about the great commission that actually hastens the day of the Lord’s return.
(43:10):
But my point is, aside from that, aside from how unuseful Christians that seem to be obsessed with end time stuff appear to be to me, they don’t seem to be the greatest fervently evangelizing and holiness pursuing. They seem like when Paul is always warning us against just getting caught up in silly stuff and distracted from what God’s left us here to do, more of that. It also seems very narcissistic, really people for 2,000 years have thought that Jesus like, “Oh, certainly he’s going to come back for us.” It’s like, “Well, are you really that important?” Let’s have a little bit of historical perspective here and also look at the great commission and is it really even close to being done? And I mean, I really believe that all nations are going to have, all peoples are going to have the opportunity to receive or reject Christ before he returns.
(44:16):
So anyway, that’s my… But I say all that to say with a huge grain of salt that I really don’t want to be one of those people. I don’t want to be one of those people that’s like, “All right, it’s here. Antichrist is here and that means Jesus is coming soon.
(44:34):
Again, let’s read end times everywhere and every time there’s an earthquake, oh my gosh, Matthew 24 and every time there’s a famine and it’s like that’s been going on for 2,000 years, y’all. But I caveat all that to say, if I was… I think, let me just put it mildly this way. Of all the antichrist candidates that have ever been tossed out there from every Pope and all the US presidents and any foreign dictator and Hitler and Fauci and whoever else, Oprah, I don’t know. Of all of them, to me, I think this meaning AI or super intelligent AI one day has the appearance, the feeling, fits the profile, I think actually biblically, aside from the personalized man of anthropology, all that. I think it fits the profile better than anyone. I don’t think anyone who’s ever lived, and again, history, we can look back now, they’re all dead other than Trump and a few of them still left today that are candidates, but none of them are important enough.
(45:56):
They all wanted to be that important, whether they…
(46:01):
But I mean, this is, again, at the risk of being hyperbolic or narcissistic about how big and global all the things happening in our day and age are, maybe it’ll go by the wayside, but it seems like not. It seems like AI is here to stay and it seems like it’s going to change the game in a way that certainly the internet, and you don’t get AI without the internet obviously, but I don’t know. To me, I think there’s a greater than 50% chance that this is what scripture has warned us about. I could be crazy. I could be totally wrong.
Thad Yessa (46:50):
I mean, rapture writing only puts it at a three out of five.
Will DuVal (46:52):
Is that what it says? In
Thad Yessa (46:53):
The antichrist right now.
Will DuVal (46:55):
Is alive? They have a constant stat tracker.
Thad Yessa (46:59):
It’s a three out of five.
Will DuVal (47:02):
But even they probably would, I’m guessing they would say, but whether or not the antichrist… I wonder what Vance meant by that. I wonder if he thinks that if he’s got someone in mind or if it is this technology or… I don’t know. Who knows?
Thad Yessa (47:20):
Yeah, there’s been a lot of people from ancient times like Nero to where we are today of people who have been ascribed. And again, I think regardless of one’s viewpoint, it does not change what we’ve been called to do and why we’ve been left behind. One could say.
Will DuVal (47:46):
I see what you did there.
Thad Yessa (47:49):
To advance the gospel and tell people about Jesus and give them a sure hope and a sure future.
Will DuVal (47:55):
Yeah. And the last thing I’ll say on it is to your point there as a good pastoral way to end is even if it is, even if this AI thing does really blow up in the biggest and worst way possible and all these existential threats and overthrowing the global economy and people worshiping at the feet of… And all of it, none of that changes… I mean, all that any of that will do is prove God’s word true and will give us even more opportunities to point to it and tell people, “Look, this has been here for 2,000 years. God’s been trying to warn us that this was going to happen and so many people were going to be deceived and let astray and worshiping this and giving over control of their whole lives to this super machine. Run it for us, be our president, do whatever.” But that’s not how we roll.
(49:02):
I mean, it’s like Daniel, everybody else might bow to the statue, but we’re not going to bow. And whether that lands at wherever your trib view is and whether that lands a square in the middle and we’re going to be persecuted for our faith through the tribulation, whether we get raptured. But anyway, I just end on that to say either way, we don’t lose hope because either this is all a big to-do for nothing and I’m an idiot for even considering that this could be the antichrist or it really is something. And then God’s word has proven true in our day. And wow, I mean, how amazing. What if we weren’t really the generation or our kids or grandkids as this thing grows, that we’re the generation where all of this end time spiritual battle, final Armageddon showdown, all of it really transpired. Wow. I mean, to be born for such a time as that would be amazing, right?
(50:13):
Just to be used by God in his glorious, grand redemptive plan and purpose and since before the time began. So don’t lose hope either which way.
Angela Heck (50:26):
Okay. Well, thank you for listening to the Ask the Pastors podcast. You can subscribe, share it with your friends. You can also submit your own questions on the website, westhillsstl.org under our resources tab, and we’ll catch you again next week.