9/20/26 | Will DuVal | Philippians: The Joy of Gospel Doctrine
Thad Yessa (00:00:03):
Welcome to the After the Sermon podcast where Pastor Will answers your follow-up questions and shares your personal applications from the sermon for the benefit of the church. My name’s Thad and I’m here with Pastor Will.
Will DuVal (00:00:15):
Hey y’all.
Thad Yessa (00:00:16):
And Pastor Will, can you start by giving us a recap of Sunday’s sermon?
Will DuVal (00:00:22):
Let’s do it. Yesterday we were in Philippians two verses 5-11 in one of the most weighty, dense, rich, wonderful, important passages in the whole Bible where Paul is… A lot of scholars believe quoting what’s often referred to as the Christ hymn, which a lot of folks believe was probably an earlier liturgical poem or confession or hymn song that might have been used in various churches, corporate worship together. And so Paul is quoting it and using it really as proof for his point, if we back up the context to last week’s sermon as I guess proof and support for his argument, his exhortation that this church in Philippi be selfless and be altruistic and caring and loving and prioritizing others’ needs above their own like Jesus did for us. Jesus didn’t think about what was best for him to stay in heaven, being worshiped by the angels, but rather lowered himself, humbled himself, emptied himself and took on a body being born in the likeness of men and further humbled himself all the way to the point of death, even death on a cross, the most shameful kind of death.
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Because of this, God has highly exalted him, given him the name above every name so that at the name of Jesus, every knee will bow, every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of the glory of God, the Father. And so we just kind of unpacked that and spent most of our time on point number one in the first two verses on what it means to say, to confess that Jesus is the God man, that he is fully God and fully man. Unpacked that. What did he empty himself of? What did he not empty himself of?
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I mean not all, but a lot of the just kind of complexities and nuances of that theologically. And then again, the context of all of this being that Jesus is the altruistic God man, that Jesus is not just selfless, but he is selflessly concerned for us and that he did all this for us out of love and concern for us and for our salvation. So that was point one. And then point two, he’s a suffering servant savior. That’s what Paul tells us, reminds us in verse eight with his obedience unto death on a cross. And so kind of cross-referenced Isaiah 53 there and Christ’s fulfillment of that and calling folks to trust in Christ as their savior. But then also in verses nine through 11, Paul tells us that because of it, God exalted him as our risen Lord. And so we kind of looked at the full gospel doctrine and truth of who Jesus is, that he’s not just our savior who died for us, but he is our Lord who rose for us.
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And therefore we are called to humble ourselves and to, just like Christ humbled himself that he might be exalted by God, we are called to humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God, that he might exalt us, that we humble ourselves and surrender our lives to Jesus and trust in him. God says that the proud will be exalted, but the proud will be humbled, but the humble will be exalted. And so yeah, that was the message in a nutshell. A lot of just really gospel rich reminders from Philippians two.
Thad Yessa (00:05:02):
And a lot of questions as follow-up, which is great. Yeah,
Will DuVal (00:05:05):
A lot of good
Thad Yessa (00:05:06):
Ones. Our first one from a confidential question, we also received one similar submitted by Brad, “How do I confirm/know I have accepted Jesus as Lord of my life, not just the savior of my soul from sin?” And Brad’s along the same lines of many people statistically in the church, both at large and also at West Hills, clear that they know Jesus Christ, but they’ve not accepted him as Lord of their life.
Will DuVal (00:05:36):
Yeah. And there was actually one other question in there, wasn’t there, that maybe we could rope in as well, wrap in as well that said, is it really possible to… Who is
Thad Yessa (00:05:50):
That? Yeah, Darcy. Is it truly possible to have Jesus as savior only and not Lord? And not work
Will DuVal (00:05:57):
Your Lord. Yeah. So I mean, let me start with that one because they’re all related, all great questions. And for context, I had just briefly alluded to my own testimony of being eight or nine years old and making a public profession of faith, getting baptized and understanding that I was a sinner, that I needed a savior, that Jesus died to be my savior and confessing him as my savior. Now, again, I can’t remember the whole conversations with my parents at the time or my pastor at the time or any of that. I mean, what I can tell you is that if I had a real understanding grasp of what it means to call and confess Jesus as Lord as well, it’s possible. But I certainly wasn’t doing it at the time. I wasn’t actually even really, I don’t think, attempting to humble myself under Christ’s Lordship and surrender my life and decision making and priorities and everything else to Jesus’s discretion and his guidance of my life.
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And that’s really what it means to confess Jesus as Lord. I mean, the word Lord kurias in Greek, another translation of that is master. It’s used in the very popular and booming slave industry in the first century. And if you were someone’s slave and they were your kourias, your master, when they say jump, you say how high? And lest we think that this… Because in our country, we idolize freedom above pretty much everything else. I mean, it’s right there in our country’s founding sort of myth and ethos or whatever is like the British have no right to rule over us and we’re going to be totally free to do what we want. And then all the way down to today, I mean, it’s just freedom gone wild. No one has any right, not even God or my own cells in my body have a right to tell me what sex I am.
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I have total freedom to choose who I am and my identity, all that. But the Bible just thinks and speaks of freedom in a very different way, obviously, and that true freedom comes…
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The people that think they’re free in that way are really just slaves to their own sinful desires and that true freedom can only be found paradoxically in submitting yourself under the Lordship, the mastership of Christ, and then being set free from sin, then we can be free. I think of Romans six where Paul says, I mean, everyone’s a slave to something. You can either be a slave to sin or you can be a slave to Christ and be set free from sin. And so anyway, long story short, I think the answer to the question of can we truly have Jesus as our savior if he’s not our Lord? I think the pretty clear answer from Jesus’s own testimony in the gospels is no. I mentioned Luke 9:23, 24, Matthew 16, 24, 25. But I mean, you can go to any number of places I think where Jesus says similar things and even just personal interactions with the rich young ruler and others where…
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I mean, Jesus just makes it clear, I think, that if you are not willing to, again, submit, die to yourself, take up your cross and truly follow him. I mean, he doesn’t say anyone who would come after me must just sign on this statement of faith or something like that or must pray this magic prayer and give me your sins and then you’re good, you’re good to go from here. It’s die to yourself, take up your cross daily. Again, not once at youth camp 20 years ago, but daily, take up your cross, die to yourself and follow me. It’s a very active, not passive, not past tense. It’s a present tense, active, daily calling to confess Jesus as your Lord, to let him lead and guide you through life like the disciples did, walking in his dust, in his wake every day for three and a half years.
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And then after that, at the leading of his Holy Spirit, now living in them, just continue more of the same.
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And so we’re called to that as well. So yeah, to Brad’s point, I think there are probably sadly millions, I would guess, of folks who call themselves Christians who prayed a prayer once or something who aren’t at all walking with the Lord. And even with that said, some of this, I think we have to be humble enough to leave up to God’s own… I mean, only God truly knows people’s hearts. So we have any number of people at our church, members at our church who are all the time submitting prayer requests for their 20, 30, 40 something year old kids and the parents can’t, whether it’s they can’t bring themselves to believe that they’re not truly saved or not, but well, he was raised in the church and made a profession of faith, got baptized when they were a kid, and now they’re in their 30s, 40s, and haven’t been to church in decades, don’t seem to have any kind of spiritual appetite at all, never picked up their Bible.
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I try and have a spiritual conversation with them and they just kind of shut it down.
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So I know they’re saved, but I’m just praying that God would really bring them back to church and reignite a passion for their faith or whatever. I mean, sometimes I will say, “Do you know they’re saved?” That profession of faith when they were 10 years old, that baptism here at West Hills or whatever it was, we don’t know. I mean, only God knows their hearts, right? So I mean, my encouragement is always in that scenario to say, “I would err on the side of believing that they’re not saved and that they need you to pray for them and that they need you to witness to them and reach out to them.” I wouldn’t let myself sleep too soundly in that kind of a scenario with a loved one in that kind of a state where there’s just absolutely no evidence. I mean, Jesus said, “You’ll know a tree by its fruit.” So if there’s that little non-existent fruit in that person’s life, I mean, I know we’re not saved by our fruit, we’re not saved by our works and our good deeds for Jesus or something, but you will know a tree by its fruit.
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I mean, you’ll know whether the tree is good or bad, whether it’s truly found a home in the soil of God’s word or whatever. So yeah, I think that kind of goes to that second answer of Andrew’s question, Brad’s question of how do we know? How do we know if I’m surrendering to Jesus’s Lord or not? I think you examine your fruit, there’s plenty of prayers to that end in scripture. You think of David’s famous kind of search me and see if there’s any wicked way within me, or I think we’re invited, Paul or I can’t remember who he invites to test yourselves and make sure you’re in the faith. We’re invited to examine and test ourselves and consider, does my life look more like Christ today than it did yesterday, a year ago, 10 years ago?
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Ask those around you who know you best. Again, they can’t know your heart, but they are going to have maybe a better kind of objective third party seat for examining your life and your manner of life and your fruit and maybe give you good feedback about, “Yeah, actually, I think here’s an area or two of your life where it doesn’t seem like you’ve actually really truly surrendered to Christ’s Lordship in your work life, in your marriage, in your parenting, in your sexuality, in your whatever it might be.” And again, I think we can, with any of this, probably go overboard. And I think we do have to, at the end of the day, rest in God’s grace for us. And again, that our salvation is not determined by how faithfully we are being led by Christ as our Lord and submitting to him. But I mean, finding that balance of, but at the same time, taking really seriously his call to follow him and to let your life be shaped and changed by him.
Thad Yessa (00:18:03):
No, great answers to those questions. Our next one comes from Allison and her question is, “If Jesus’s resurrected body was his heavenly body, how come the holes in his hands inside were there for Thomas to touch John 20:27?”
Will DuVal (00:18:24):
That’s a really interesting question. Thanks, Alison. I referenced this just in passing yesterday in text with proving that Jesus is God because Thomas cries out and responds, “My Lord and my God,” to Jesus. And so he’s identifying him as God, but he does. He puts his hands in Jesus’s… Now, I read one article that was saying that the Greek preposition ice, E-I-S, well, it’s not English letters, but can have a range of meanings. So did Thomas really put his finger inside the nail hole versus on it, like the place where it would’ve been and now it’s scarred over and whatever? We don’t know for sure. I think clearly though, there is some evidence, whether it’s holes or scars, there is evidence there that this is Jesus. This is not just like Allison says, some brand new totally made over body. I mean, it’s identifiably Jesus by the holes, the scars, and yet also not identifiably Jesus when you think of him walking with the two guys, disciples on the road to Emmaus, and they didn’t know who he was.
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They though he was a stranger. They’re talking to him, “Haven’t you heard about what happened?” And then only miles later, he opens their eyes to be able to see him. So that’s probably more about just Jesus or God for his own purposes causing them not to be able to distinguish that it’s Jesus. Similar thing, Mary Magdalene shows up, she though it was the gardener, took her a minute like, “Wait a minute. Oh, that is Jesus.” And whether that’s just that they just had no concept for someone coming back from the dead, so they just didn’t expect it to be him, which is also kind of a funny point because they should have because Jesus himself raised two or three people from the dead in the gospel. And he told them a lot of times, at least three times like, “Hey, I’m coming back.” But long and short of it, I think probably the best, most profound answer though is that why does Jesus, even now, I mean, assuming his body didn’t change, which we don’t hear about it changing between his resurrection and then his ascension 50 days later back into, 40, 40 days later, back into heaven, we don’t hear anything about his body changing then.
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Now we know it was changed… Sorry, I’m going back and forth. We know it was changed with the resurrection because he’s walking through walls. He’s walking through walls, but then he’s also eating fish to prove that I’m not just a ghost and it doesn’t just fall through me. He’s solid enough that the women give him a hug and there’s something to cling to, but also he can walk through walls. So there’s a lot going on there with Jesus’ body. But to go back to the point, I think the nail holes and the spear hole, I think the best theological reason I can give for why Jesus didn’t get a brand new no scars kind of body is so that now for the rest of eternity, there are visible reminders of what he did to save us. And you think about Revelation 5:12 and the angels even now singing constantly, worthy, worthy, worthy, is the lamb who was slain to receive blessing and honor and glory and power and that there’s that visible reminder when you see him, that’s the lamb, that’s the lamb who was slain.
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I can see his hands, his feet, his side, and it brings out that kind of response of worship among not only the angels, but more importantly, even more so, how much more so, the redeemed, those of us who he actually died for, sinful humanity who’s been redeemed, that it ought to seeing his body does that. So I think that’s what I would say, and there’s all sorts of spinoff questions we could ask like, okay, so what are our glorified bodies going to be like in heaven? Again, there seems to be the ability to recognize others.
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Again, I think it’s where we hear that the elect are going to come from all over to sit at the banquet feast with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. So we’re going to be able to identify, okay, that’s Abraham, that’s Isaac, that’s Jacob, and sit with them and eat with them. I’m of the persuasion, we’ve done another podcast on this about you’re going to be able to recognize loved ones in heaven and certainly recognize Jesus. So part of that then would seem to imply that they didn’t get such brand new bodies that we can no longer tell that that’s Abraham or whatever.
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And again, our bodies are… This is not a gnostic religion where the material is bad, and so we’re just these disembodied souls floating around. The bodies are important, and so I have to believe that something of our bodies here on earth, like Jesus’s, will be retained and will be recognizable. Again, I guess no one asked that, so I’ll save that for a whole nother… If I’m super fat or something here, am I going to be skinny and beautiful and heaven? And can it be a glorified body if it’s not… I don’t know, that’s a whole nother… I’ll leave it at that. Other than to say that what I was going to say is what about our scars? I mean, Jesus kept his scars in his glorified body, will we? And I think there could be something beautiful and theological and meaningful about that if even in our resurrected glorified bodies, if we still have the marks of scars from this life that point in our case to God’s redemptive power to heal us, that our faith is not just about forgetting that anything bad ever happened because God actually gets more glory.
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I mean, God could have never gone through the whole fall in Genesis three and all the rest of redeeming it, but God actually gets more glory from allowing sin and brokenness and wounds and then healing those wounds. And that’s what a scar is, right? It’s a healed wound. And so I don’t know. I think there’s a good argument to be made for us having glorified bodies one day that will actually still show the marks of past wounds that have now been redeemed and healed, just like Jesus’s. So I don’t know, leave it there for now. Thanks, Alison.
Thad Yessa (00:26:35):
Next one comes from Victoria. “If Jesus did all those signs and wonders even after emptying himself, does that mean we as believers should do that?”
Will DuVal (00:26:47):
Yes. And I think that’s a great question. I’m glad she asked it. I had kind of another quote, but I figured I’ve got enough him in there from Tim Keller, but where he makes that point from this particular verse and phrase about Jesus emptying himself and yet still doing such powerful miracles because part of what he was emptying himself of, and I talked about his divine prerogative privilege, is that part of what Jesus emptied himself of was the… And you see it and you hear the scribes of Pharisees marveling and the crowds marveling that he’s saying things and doing things out of what seems like to be his own authority because the way they did things was they would quote, “Well, my rabbi learned from his rabbi, learned from his rabbi.” And it was all about tracing your line of spiritual authority back to Moses, whereas Jesus was just like, “Yeah, no, you’re wrong.
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Three rabbis back, they got it wrong. Let me clear it up for you.” And it was just like Jesus just spoke with authority, but he did empty himself of… There’s a number of miracles even, you think of the raising of Lazarus and others where Jesus stops and he prays and ask God to make his power known, to show God’s power through Jesus and answer his prayer. And there’s a number of places where Jesus says –
Thad Yessa (00:28:41):
Feeding the 5,000.
Will DuVal (00:28:42):
Yeah, the feeding of 5,000, he prays, but just basically that Jesus made himself fully dependent on his father for authority, power. He says, “I’ve only done what God gave me to do. I do the will of the Father.” I mean, obviously the prayer at Gethsemane, not my will, but your will be done. And so all that to say, I mean, Tim Keller was making the point there that if we really believe that, that Jesus wasn’t acting out of his own presumed authority, but emptied himself to make himself completely 100% humble, independent, and obedient to the will of his father while he was on earth, that if we would just do the same, what could we do? And the fact that we aren’t feeding 5,000 or walking on water or raising people from the dead is an indictment of our pride, basically, that we haven’t humbled ourselves enough and become that dependent on the Father.
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He quoted and pointed to John 14:12 where Jesus says, “Truly I tell you, greater works than these you’re going to do in my name.” Jesus is telling his disciples and perhaps by extension us 2000 years later, I mean all those who follow him, that I’ve done some pretty amazing things. The context of John 14 is Jesus saying, “I’m God.” Again, saying it for a fourth time is he says, “I’m the way of the truth of life. No one comes to the Father but through me.” I think it’s Philip ask him, “Jesus, we’re confused. You’re talking about God the Father. Just show us God the Father and then we’ll shut up and we’ll stop bothering you.” Jesus says, “Philip, have you been with me this long and you still don’t know? You’re looking at him. You are looking at God. You don’t need to see God the Father, who is spirit, who is in heaven.
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You get God the Son. You get the fullness of deity in bodily form, Colossians two, right here in front of you. I am God.” You’re looking at him. Then he immediately says in verse 12, “Oh, and by the way, I’m going to die and go away, but you’re going to do even greater things than I’ve done.” The point is that yes, to Victoria’s question, I think if we were truly… I mean, Jesus himself said, “If you got faith like a mustard seed, you can move a mountain.” Either he’s being unfairly and almost maliciously exaggerative and hyperbolic there, or Jesus really means that if we had the kind of faith and the kind of humble dependence on him and on God the Father, the Holy Spirit, that Christ himself had in his time on earth, that we would see signs and wonders that would blow people’s mind.
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I think obviously you see it in the book of Acts after he leaves and he sends the Holy Spirit. To the extent that the apostles were humbling themselves and relying on God’s power and emptying themselves of Peter to be filled with Jesus, they’re raising the dead. I mean, Paul brings somebody back from the dead. Peter’s healing lame people, born blind.
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I think it is on the one hand an indictment of our lack of faith, our lack of dependence, our lack of humility, but it’s also ought to be motivation for us to desire to see God do amazing things through us if we’ll let him, if we’ll get out of the way, like John the Baptist, “I must decrease. He must increase.” If we would just pray that and actually live it out, what kinds of miracles might we see him work through us, not the least of which being bringing others to saving faith, that God uses us to accomplish regeneration in the lives of others to the extent that we are faithful and we tell them about Jesus and God, the Holy Spirit does that work of softening their heart and causing them to believe and be born again and be saved and that he uses us.
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I mean, that’s better than Jesus bringing Lazarus back from the dead because God is now giving that person eternal life, spiritual life. Lazarus died again physically. I think that’s what he’s pointing to more than anything.
Thad Yessa (00:34:21):
Victoria also has application, speak Philippians two: five through 11 over the Jewish synagogue in my neighborhood and write it on paper and on the sidewalk with chalk.
Will DuVal (00:34:33):
Yeah, I think ministry to our Jewish friends and family neighbors ought to be a great takeaway from this sermon in particular because obviously that’s the biggest… Them, the Mormons, how many cults, or again, I’m not saying Judaism is a cult, but the denying of Christ divinity. This is really game set and match for where Judaism stops and Christianity starts is like, who do you say I am, like Jesus said. Christians say you are the Christ, the son of the living God. Jews of course deny that. Mormons, of course, deny that Jesus is truly God.
Thad Yessa (00:35:20):
Islam denies that Jesus is truly God.
Will DuVal (00:35:23):
But I mean, it’s just so clear in God’s word. I think I gave about a half dozen passages, but I mean Philippians two alone, it’s just so clear. Jesus is God.
Thad Yessa (00:35:35):
Next one comes from Brooks. He writes, “How can Christ be exalted even higher than he was previously?”
Will DuVal (00:35:44):
Great question, Brooks. I made that statement, and let me give just a caveat that some Christians and scholars, whatever pastors would disagree with that and disagree with the way I stated that and framed that. They would say… I was listening to John Piper and ask Pastor John his… No, sorry, it was his look at the book and he was going through this and he was saying, “Well, I mean Christ, he was the word, created everything. He has all this glory from time eternity past.” So obviously you can’t get any higher than that. But again, my reading of not only Philippians two, but even like I said, going back to that Hebrews five: eight and nine passage where the author of Hebrews says, “Christ learned obedience through his suffering and was made perfect.” Again, you preach that one, not me, but my 30-second interpretation of that would be that, again, re-translate the word perfect as complete.
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He was made complete and then think about, okay, so again, there’s a sense in which…
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You obviously have to say that there was, on the one hand, nothing lacking in Jesus. It wasn’t like he needed us or something to be his full self or something like that. But certainly from the standpoint of completing the work, again, John 17, where he prays, “Father, I’ve finished the work that you gave me to do.” In completing God’s redemptive plan from eternity past to save sinners and to use Christ’s sacrifice to do it, there’s a sense in which you have to say that Jesus had not yet completed and finished the work, the mission, the goal, whatever that the Father had for him until after his death and resurrection. Here’s maybe one way of thinking about it. Again, if Philippians 2:10: 11, if because of his obedience unto death to rescue us, because of that, therefore God has exalted him, highly, super exalted him and given him…
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Because he could have just said exalted, right? He’s reexalted him to the same place he was before, but he says super exalted. So that’s not like a slam dunk. But then he goes on to say, “And bestowed on him the name that is above every name.” In other words, either Christ had the name before and that was part of what he emptied himself of, was he emptied himself of that name and then he took it back up and so he’s just really going back to the same place he was before or he got a new name, the name that is above every name, that had the name of Jesus.
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Jesus isn’t the name. I said it’s Lord, every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. That’s the name, that’s the title that he’s given that’s bestowed on him by God the Father because of this. Now, quick word on that. Jesus also claimed even for himself the title Lord, even in his earthly ministry before his death and resurrection. Luke 19:31, if anyone asks you, why are you untying this cult, you shall say the Lord has need of it. John 13:13, “You call me teacher and Lord and you are right for so I am.” So there’s a sense in which the disciples had already been calling him Lord before his death and resurrection. Jesus himself is claiming that title. And here’s where it gets, again, tricky and maybe I’m reading too much into it, but I think if you’re really going to reconcile all these texts together, you have to one another, you have to do this, is to say that when he’s using that title, that name Lord throughout his earthly ministry and they’re using it for him, that he’s using it more in the sense of, “I’m your master, you’re my disciples, you’re my followers, my servants.” Servant is not above his master, his Lord.
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So Jesus, it’s John 15, “You’re going to suffer like me, servant not above his master.” I think there’s a sense in which Jesus was already their Lord, that they had died to themselves, take up their crosses metaphorically at this point. They hadn’t died yet literally, but they’re following him around, sleeping where he sleeps. Foxes don’t have holes and birds have nests, but I don’t. If you’re really going to follow me, count the cost, I’ve got to be your Lord, you’ve got to renounce, give it up. Anyone who has given up houses and family for me, you’re going to be rewarded 10 times in the kingdom. I think that’s all part of what it means to call him Lord. As you’re Peter, James, John, Andrew, the rest in his earthly time. Again, what does Paul mean in Philippians 2:11 when he says that now God has given him this name only in his resurrection, ascension, exaltation to the right hand of God the Father, the place of preeminence from once he now rules and will come again.
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What does it mean that now he has been given this name? I think that’s where I would say, yes, it’s all of the other master stuff submit to him, but it’s even more than that because that again is that, as I mentioned, as a quote, Paul is quoting Isaiah 45:23 where God himself, Yahweh in Isaiah 45, and go back and read Isaiah 45. There’s some of the most strong language about the absolute supremacy and singularity and sovereignty of God, the father of Yahweh in Isaiah 45: seven. “I am the Lord. There is no other. I make light and dark and calamity and good and I do all of it because there’s no one else to do it. It’s just me, Yahweh. I’m the only one. All the other so-called gods are fake. They’re nothing. They’re straw and silver and wood.
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Anyway, that’s the context of God making these absolute statements about his supremacy, his singularness and sovereignty. And so in that context for God to say,” To me, every knee will bow and every tongue will declare allegiance to me, Yahweh. “Then for Paul to quote that about Jesus, I think what he’s saying is he’s using that to… I mean, any Jew hearing Philippians 2:11 is going to immediately know and think about Isaiah 45 and say,” Okay, this is again, just a in your face, strong as possible statement that Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus, the Christ is not only the Christ, the Messiah. He is God. He is one with God the Father. He is Yahweh.
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“Again, that name, Yahweh, the Jews still won’t write it, speak it. I mean, our Bibles don’t translate it.You’re not going to find Yahweh in your Bible. It’s going to be Lord in all capitals because even still today, even for Christians, I guess that name Yahweh is considered so holy. You don’t even say it. I’m saying it, but because I think we’re invited to say it now. We have a personal relationship with him through Jesus. So did Jesus, did Christ have the name Yahweh before his death, resurrection, ascension, exaltation? I think what Paul’s indicating here is that he didn’t. Now, don’t question any of my Trinitarian theology in that. Yes, he was still one with God the Father, but anytime you’re seeing Yahweh in the Old Testament, let’s say, I think we’re supposed to understand that is referring at that point exclusively to God the Father, and it’s only after Christ had proved himself, done what God sent him to do that now he gets that name as well.
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Not that he’s any more one with God the father than he already was, but there’s something about the name, right? The name that is above all names, that title and applying it to Jesus, that is… Okay, so last little thing. I already mentioned Revelation five. The angels couldn’t sing worthy as the lamb who was slain to receive blessing and honor and glory and power and might. They couldn’t sing that until Jesus had done what God sent him to do. So there is a certain kind of glory. There’s a certain peculiar exaltation that Christ received after death, resurrection, ascension, exaltation that he didn’t have before. I don’t think that’s heretical to say because again, the angels can’t sing worthy as lamb who was slain past tense before he had actually been slain. And that’s exalting of that’s giving glory to Christ that he didn’t have before.
(00:46:42):
I hope that, I don’t know, that helps, Brooks.
Thad Yessa (00:46:47):
Next question from Annie. How would you respond to someone questioning the godhood of Jesus? A question like, can God die if Jesus was God, how did he die?
Will DuVal (00:46:59):
Thanks, Annie. I think I’ve talked around it already some, so let me try and be quicker here. I think as far as questioning the godhood of Jesus, I think you can take him to all those, like I mentioned, passages, Philippians two here, John one, John 10, John 20, Colossians two, Hebrews one: three. He’s the radiance of the exact imprint of God’s divine nature. I mean, there’s just so many different passages that point so clearly to Christ’s divinity. I think as far… Emmanuel, God with us, Matthew one, I mentioned the Mark two, Jesus raising the paralytic, only God can forgive sins. Jesus is like, “Yep, you’re right.” John 14, I talked about already, and Philip, and show us God the Father, you’re looking at him. But some of these two specific questions that she mentioned, can God die? If Jesus was God, how did he die?
(00:48:03):
Again, tried to say over and over again yesterday, very clearly, Jesus never stopped being God while he was here on earth. He emptied himself of certain privileges, prerogatives, powers, but never stopped being God. I mean, this question of can God die, I think the answer that we as Christians have to say, if you just want to take it on face value very literally is yes.
(00:48:40):
There are certain things that God can’t do. If you want to really get into logic and theology and whatever, God cannot sin. It’s not just that God does not sin, God cannot sin. We would say that that is not… Now, again, some Christians will diverge over this and have difference of opinions. I think this is my own kind of persuasion. God cannot sin. That’s not a limitation on God’s nature. That’s not a limitation on God’s omnipotence, that there’s something he can’t do. Just like again, can God make a square circle or can God make a rock so heavy he can’t lift it? All these kind of logical contradictions. Again, there’s kind of two schools of though on this, and not to go down the whole rabbit hole there, but I would say that God can’t do logically contradictory things and that doesn’t limit who he is in any way and his power because actually to be able to do it would mean that he would be an illogical God and he’s not.
(00:49:52):
He’s a God of reason and order and perfectly so. Same thing with sinning, that God’s inability to sin. Now, can God die though? That’s a different question. I mentioned Jesus alone exclusively of every human that’s ever been born, did not have to die. Again, this would be a whole nother podcast episode. Would it theoretically have been possible if he didn’t willingly lay down his life, because that’s what Jesus says. No one takes my life from me. I lay it down. I would say that even applies to God the Father and to sin and death. Our lives in a sense will be taken from us by the grave, by death.
(00:50:51):
But Jesus says, “No one’s going to take my life. I lay it down willingly of my own accord.” I think part of what he’s saying there is I alone have the authority over life and death and I alone have the divine power, privilege, prerogative to not die because I don’t deserve it. Again, death enters the world through sin. That’s biblical, Romans five. So if Jesus never sinned, he was born in the likeness of sinful flesh, but didn’t have sinful flesh, not a sinful molecule in his body. Hypothetically, theoretically, could Jesus have just never died and just still be alive today and have been 2,030 years old when he finally went to the cross? Again, we can debate that. It’s an interesting question, but I guess what I would say about it is he didn’t have to die, but he willingly did it. He humbly, obediently did it for us.
(00:52:08):
Is Jesus’s divinity logically incompatible with death? Is it logically, philosophically, whatever, conceptually impossible for God to die? In other words, is God’s immortality one of his essential characteristics, traits? There’s certain characteristics and traits of God that he cannot give up, empty himself of, again, if we want to use that word, and still be God. If God stopped being holy, he wouldn’t be God. If God stopped being, I don’t know, probably… I mean, I’ll just stop at holiness to be safe. I’m not very smart. I’m not very good at this stuff, so I’ve probably already said some heresy somewhere along the way that somebody listened to this will correct me on and whatever. That’s fine. Don’t stone me.
(00:53:23):
God’s holiness, I would say, is essential to his divinity. He can’t stop being holy and still be God. Jesus never stopped being holy. Of all the things he emptied himself of, Philippians two: seven, never emptied himself of holiness, but did he empty himself of immortality, of the lack of even, I guess, ability to die. I mean, obviously, unless you want to say he faked his death, you have to say yes. I mean, Jesus died. You can’t have it both ways. Either he stopped being God or he didn’t really die or God can’t die, but all three can’t be right. I’m saying Jesus never stopped being God. He really did die, and therefore you have to logically say if A and B, then therefore C, yes, God can die. He did die. God the son, Jesus Christ died. God the Father, God the Holy Spirit did not die.
(00:54:27):
Again, what I would say theologically about that is if somebody was to say, “Well, isn’t that then, again, a limitation of God that he can die?” I would say, and I think we have to say no. As a matter of fact, it is only just like… I mean, it’s a similar question. Isn’t a God who would allow such evil and suffering in the world, who would allow the fall to happen, isn’t that an incrimination on God? I mean, how could he really be God and allow all this evil and suffering? I think we as Christians have to say part of what makes him God is he’s so much bigger even than we would… I mean, if it was us inventing a God, we’d say, “Well, he’s perfect, static, end of story.” Genesis one and two, and that’s it. Very short Bible, but God’s better than we imagined him to be, and he allows even all the sin, and it’s a good thing because otherwise we would never be born.
(00:55:31):
I mean, we’re sinners. God allows all of this, and yet he’s so powerful and so God that he can redeem it and rescue it, save it, fix it, make it better, use it in his plan and purpose, all that. So I would say that’s what he does with death, that God is… What’s the only thing better than a God that can’t die? A God that can die and come back from the dead in order to conquer death for everyone else. That’s maybe the 10-second version of my answer to Annie’s question.
Thad Yessa (00:56:10):
Next is from Emily. “Hi, Pastor Will, really appreciate you tackling this challenging passage of scripture. If possible, could you elaborate a bit more on verses nine through 11 where you mentioned Jesus was given the title of Lord, which we’ve already done, but are there other passages of scripture that talk about him receiving the title of Lord?
Will DuVal (00:56:34):
The other most explicit one… Thanks. That was Emily, right? Emily.
(00:56:42):
Thanks, Emily. The other most explicit one I think is Acts two, verse 36, where Peter, after Pentecost, filled with the spirit, they’re all speaking and everybody’s hearing in different languages, and then Peter’s like, “Our order here.” And he preaches like the first sermon. And as part of that, he preached the gospel and all these 5,000 get… Or is it 3,000 the first time? I always get it flipped. I think it’s 3,000 the first time. It doesn’t matter. I mean, it does matter. But anyway, Peter preaches, and in verse 36, he says, “Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him Jesus, both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” So again, God has made him both Lord and Christ. So you have that language again that Jesus was theoretically at some point, or however you want to interpret that, whether he was made Lord and Christ, again, from eternity past.
(00:58:06):
I would say he was made Christ. He was made the Messiah when he was born, when he took on flesh as a human, when the Messiah came and when Jesus was made Christ, and then he was made Lord at his exaltation, like Paul says in Philippians 2:11, given that name, that title of Lord of Yahweh.
(00:58:30):
Yeah, that’s the other most explicit. There may be others, but honestly, in researching for this sermon, I was really trying to poke around a lot and cross reference, and there really aren’t, which is interesting, there are not tons and tons of passages that talk about Christ exaltation. I mean, this is by far the most explicit. There’s kind of this… I think obviously that’s purposeful, but why don’t we hear more about what was going on behind the scenes in heaven, whatever, when Christ was raised? It’s just kind of like, well, he was dead and they’re sad, and then all of a sudden he’s back and we don’t get the…
(00:59:36):
And there’s even debate about that. We did another podcast about did he really go to hell for three days? That’s in the creed, the confession, but there’s some debate about that. Did Christ really descend into hell? Where was he for that time? Were there conversations and God, “Hey, time to come back.” Or what were the angels doing? What the demons doing? Satan doing? The souls of those who had been deceased, we get that one Peter three, Jesus went and preached to him. So anyway, there’s more question marks than there are anything there. And then even however you want to think about his exaltation, not just resurrection, but then 40 days later, his ascension back into heaven.
(01:00:24):
Some of the commentators will talk about really two steps, Christ’s humiliation and his exaltation and his humiliation happening in stages. First, the incarnation. There is a humbling that happened in Jesus taking on a body. I mean, depending on how far you want to parse it out, I mean, there was tons of humblings throughout his life. He’s getting mocked, he’s getting threatened, he’s getting all kinds of things throughout his earthly life. But then really the next big humiliation obviously being his arrest and suffering and trial and all that, obviously the crucifixion. So different stages of humiliation, condescension, going down in status, and then exaltation, but different stages. First you got the resurrection. Okay, so that’s a jump from death to life. Then you’ve got the ascension. Okay, that’s a jump from I’m resurrected, but I’m still here stuck on this sinful planet and then I get to go back to heaven and the glory there.
(01:01:28):
And then even some will say further his session, I think is the theological word for seeding, Christ’s seeding at the right hand of God the Father. But again, we just don’t hear much in scripture about these things about like, okay, what happened when he ascended? I mean, I’m assuming there was a party with the angels and they’re already singing worthy as the lamb that was slain, but then does the party just get bigger? Is there this big moment of him then going and sitting down? Because that’s a big theological whole thing that Christ is seated at the right hand of God the Father now and what that means theologically for us, which I won’t go into, but I almost imagine when you win the World Cup or whatever and they’ve already won, but then they had the trophy ceremony and they march the trophy over and they raise it up and they go crazy again.
(01:02:27):
It’s just like, was that his session? So there’s this whole kind of stages of his exaltation as well, but we just don’t hear about it. And I think again, that’s purposeful that God is inviting us to imagine that we’re led to deeper layers of worship as we imagine these scenes in the past when that happened and these scenes still playing out in heaven and the angels still singing and praise to Jesus. And then imagine ourselves that we will one day join them and be there with him and see him seated on his throne and get to sing and worship him in person. Anyway, but did I answer the question? What was the question?
Thad Yessa (01:03:13):
Yeah. What other verses are there? You started with
Will DuVal (01:03:16):
That. There’s just not a lot about the exaltation specifically. And some of it depends on how you interpret Revelation. I don’t know. But I’ll leave it there.
Thad Yessa (01:03:28):
All right. Our last one submitted online, Anonymous, said, “Thank you for the particular wording correction in reference to the original Greek. What other general typical misreadings do we fall into with the modern ESV English standard version scripture? Is a good future plan to get a side-by-side ESV and Greek Hebrew Bible to compare the wording?”
Will DuVal (01:03:56):
Oh, great question. There’s way too many to counter mention about misreadings with modern ESV in any translation. So a couple things to say. First of all, I was not purposely trying to hate on the ESV. I think by and large, as I said yesterday, ESV is a great translation. I use it. We use it. It’s not perfect though. And I think it’s a fine line to walk. We’re not doing that and going that technical and comparing the Greek and trying to point out suggestions for improvement on English translations. We don’t do that every week because I don’t want to undermine people’s confidence in their Bibles that they’re bringing with them to church and reading at home. I want you to be confident that when you’re reading and studying on your own, and especially with study Bible, hopefully that is going to have good study notes when there’s various translations of a word or room for interpretation and even how to translate this word.
(01:05:13):
And it can mean three different things in Greek and we went with this translation. I mean, the best study Bible is going to do that for you, but none of them are perfect. And so I’m just recognizing that.
(01:05:28):
But yeah, I mean, in any given passage, any given verse, you could just go verse by verse and say, “Okay, on this one, I like the NLT best. On this one, I think the NIV gets it closest. On this one, actually the King James.” But yeah, ultimately you have to go back to the Greek and Hebrew for that. But what I would say is, do you need to be a Greek and Hebrew scholar to be able to read and understand your Bible? No, you don’t. And praise God for the Greek and Hebrew scholars that are way smarter, better done this more than me and that have done that and rendered it into the English for us so that we can read it in our own language obviously, and still working to do that in every language.
(01:06:33):
Shout out to Wycliffe and others who are getting that done. But I think that said, is it helpful to have, I don’t know, a working understanding of some Greek and Hebrew and how those languages operate? And when I mentioned yesterday, okay, this is actually a present act of participle and does that mean anything to you? I didn’t necessarily say it as if that should mean something to all of our folks or even necessarily any of our folks, but I’m saying it to establish credibility that I’ve looked at the text and compared it and I’m telling you that based on what this actually says in the Greek, that this ESV translation of he was in the form of God is not a good one, is not certainly the best one here. And the NIV being in the nature of God is better because a participle is a verb that looks and acts like a noun.
(01:07:44):
So anyway, but yeah, is it helpful to have a side-by-side ESV in Greek Hebrew Bible to compare wording? I think that could be great for our folks. I think that could be whether or not you want to get a hard copy like that. I would say honestly, it’s going to be so big when you have both all three languages or whatever. But I think in addition to that, there’s just such powerful tools that you can get online now. And
Thad Yessa (01:08:14):
Even free ones.
Will DuVal (01:08:14):
Oh, free. Yeah. We recommend… I don’t use logos. Do you use logos? I think every other pastor does, but I just use the free… I mean, if you just Google for Greek interlinear Philippians two, the first link that’s going to pop up is biblehub.com. And it is a powerful tool where you can hover the cursor over… You’re going to see it interlinear, so you’re going to see the Greek and then you’re going to see their word for word, not phrase for phrase, but word for word kind of translations of each kind of word in the Greek order. So it’s going to be all jumbled and out of order because it’s going to follow the Greek. So I love that because it’s the Greek, the primary text is what’s primary and kept primary. And then you’re going to get all kind of jumbled English, very wooden literal translations of words and you can hover over the declinchions of this is a second person, plural, nominative case, whatever, different declinchons of the nouns, different conjugations of the verbs.
(01:09:30):
Again, that might not mean anything to you right now, but I mean, gosh, you can just go down the rabbit hole and start teaching yourself, figure it out. I’ve recommended other resources that I think are great once you have gone through and know it. I mean, it’s like anything, is it best to sit down and take a Spanish class before you start trying to really engage with a language? I mean, you’re going to do better that way if you can, but also if you just go live in Mexico for a year and just don’t hang out with anyone who speaks English and just watch their telenovelas in Spanish and whatever, eventually you’re going to start piecing things together and picking it up. I think you can do that with Greek or Hebrew or whatever too. But yeah, I think I’ve mentioned before Daily Dose of Greek, Daily Dose of Hebrew, just these different videos where you get a five or six minute little video clip of this guy walking through just one verse for the day of, here’s Philippians 2:11.
(01:10:34):
Let’s read it in Greek first and then let’s go through one word at a time and translate it and here’s what your ESV says and here’s why I think actually a better translation is this. I think all that kind of stuff can be really great, but not necessary in the sense that you’re going to totally miss the point of God’s word if you don’t do that or don’t have access to that kind of resource. But I think you will be blessed by your effort. I guess it’s possible that somebody can go down that rabbit hole and be like, “Oh no, I just have no confidence now in our understanding of this text because it can mean so many different things.” But I think what you’re going to find in 99.9% of the cases is it doesn’t change the overarching inherent meaning of the text at all, but it will give you new layers of depth of appreciation to just little facets of…
(01:11:41):
It’s like a diamond or a precious jewel that you can just look at and be like, “That’s amazing. That’s a big honking diamond.” But if you get out the microscope and you actually look in it and you can actually… It’s just going to give you even more appreciation for the beauty.
Thad Yessa (01:12:00):
Yeah, we can, in the show notes, list a bunch of different resources and free and online. One other just note that the ESV recently, last update they did was in 2016 and this year they just released a new updated translation where they… I think it’s like 56 verses or something like that where they went back and they changed some of the wording translation. I was trying to look up and see if this verse was perhaps one of them. So again, we have confidence and they’re going back and looking and examining the manuscripts and saying, “Hey, I think we need to tweak this verse just a little bit.” Not to undermine any of the translation work of the ESV or CSV or NIV or any of those, but just to say, “Hey, even the Bible we use, they’re going back and just making, again, small changes, not to undermine, but just to say,” Hey, I think this is actually more clearly more accurate for what the text means.
Will DuVal (01:13:01):
Good.
Thad Yessa (01:13:02):
And we pray that this was edifying for you as you seek to be changed and to love God more as you apply God’s word after the sermon. So go and continue to apply the sermon and make disciples, and Lord willing, we’ll catch you here right next week.